National Anthem in Spanish

[Fuzzy Bear]

What does the National Anthem mean to everyone right here?

 

One night the Scouts were saying the Pledge of Allegiance and I saw/heard a few goofing around during the ceremony. Afterwards, I walked forward and asked everyone what the flag meant to them. Nobody said anything; they kind of knew what was coming because my voice was pitched. I started with the field of clear blue sky with the many stars and states in the heavens and then pointed to the white curtain of peace that we all share and that it could only have been bought with the red blood of so many that had fallen in battle to keep it and that I personally knew a few that had paid that price so that we could share freedom and it was to this we were pledging our allegiance.

 

As a youth, I didn't have much of an idea about what it meant either. It was only later after so many I had known had given of themselves in war that I could finally appreciate the price. As an adult, I think about the payment almost every day. It is sometimes with great sadness that I share in what we have. My hope is that we may one day find another way to pay for it.

 

[scoutldr]

I guess what I find most ironic is that those who most vehemently oppose non-English speaking immigrants are those who can't properly conjugate a verb, distinguish between "too" and "to", "breath" and "breathe", or "there" and "their", recognize apostrophic abuse, or understand etymology. Its like to intoxifying for word's

[Trevorum]

Scoutldr, excellent point.

 

The problem may be summed up thusly: "Is our children learning?"

 

In other words, "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."

 

[gwd-scouter]

I don't usually post in the politics section, but this topic hits a nerve. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. The American Culture is made up of all those wonderful and diverse people who came here before us.

 

But, not so long ago those immigrants tried to assimilate as soon as they could. They learned English and tried to fit into American Society. Yes, they kept their heritage. But, they worked hard to become citizens - LEGAL citizens. They were proud to be Americans. Americans first - not hyphenated Americans.

 

What happened since then? Now, in certain parts of the country, an English-only speaking person can feel lost.

 

I don't think we will ever establish a national language. I do sometimes feel we should, however, when I walk into a local establishment and can't be understood by the clerk because I speak English and he/she doesn't.

 

And, a bit off topic, I don't think the immigration rallies going on around the country are doing much for the cause when the protestors carry the American flag upside down or carry the Mexican flag.

 

The National Anthem in Spanish. What is the purpose? To make Spanish speaking people in the United States feel more American because they can sing the song? Somehow, this just seems out of tune to me.

 

[GernBlansten]

Perhaps the current NA is out of date. It certainly is difficult to sing, most people don't know the 2nd and 3rd verses, its genesis is a German drinking song. Too many flaws.

I propose an update. Perhaps "Born In the USA" by Springsteen.

[CalicoPenn]

>>But, not so long ago those immigrants tried to assimilate as soon as they could. They learned English and tried to fit into American Society. Yes, they kept their heritage. But, they worked hard to become citizens - LEGAL citizens. They were proud to be Americans. Americans first - not hyphenated Americans.

 

What happened since then? Now, in certain parts of the country, an English-only speaking person can feel lost.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Irish immigrants 100 years ago crossed over to stay and most never returned. Today many in the Hispanic communities in the U.S. are visitors by a silent agreement. They don't define themselves as Americans because their families live below the American border and their culture and their friends are there. They see us as a friendly neighbor that has invited them here to work in our factories, fields and households in jobs that nobody else wants. So they silently accept what is offered them. For many, the border patrols and fences are barriers that stand in the way of their surrvival making it all a mixed message. The nature of our country (*meaning, to accept others) and our attitudes (*meaning, to not accept others) sends mixed messages. We should not be surprised when we receive an equally mixed message. Even if everyone spoke English, it would still be confusing. FB

[scoutldr]

It's not a question of language, culture, or freedom. It's a question of respecting the laws of the country. My forefathers were German immigrants in 1765. They immigrated legally through the port of Philadelphia and I have copies of the paperwork to prove it.

 

I'm not saying the current laws or immigration processes are correct. But it is the law until changed. Crossing the border without permission (no they have not been "invited") is a crime. If you don't agree with that, then work to have the law changed.

[Kaji]

Amen.

 

Even if the first generation immigrants back in the day didn't exactly learn English or assimilate all that well, they usually made as strong of an effort as they could to be certain that their children did, in many cases even going so far as to forbid them to speak the language of the old country so that they could become better at English than their parents, who would often be in their 40s by the time they came over to begin with. There was effort on all sides to do the best they could. There's nothing wrong with using the old language in environments where it's appropriate (my girlfriend is Vietnamese, so naturally household affairs in her family are conducted in Vietnamese. See the above example about Mexican adults in the community using Spanish, as well). The important thing, however, is that in all the cases I just mentioned, they learned English as well. They're functional outside of their cutural community. It's hard to truly call our nation a melting pot when people are insisting on blending with American socitey the way oil blends with water...

[John-in-KC]

Scoutldr,

 

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. I am, however, in one of my other lives, a public policy student.

 

Sadly, illegal immigration is NOT a violation of the CRIMINAL STATUTES of the US Code, rather the CIVIL STATUTES. 8 USC 1182 simply provides that an illegal entrant to the US is ineligible for legal admission to the US.

 

The sanction is simply deportation after administrative law proceedings. Rightly or wrongly, this is one reason the House bill seeks to criminalize presence in the US after illegal entry.

 

Returning to the topic at hand, I tend to agree with Lisa'bob. If the National Anthem expresses the same message in Spanish as currently transliterated, I'm ok with it.

 

OTOH, I also have a point of agreement with gwd-scouter. Why are illegal entrants protesting with the US Color upside down and the Mexican flag in visible showing? Seems to me their goal should be to work through existing Hispanic coalitions to regularize their status.

 

This debate is just the tip of the iceberg, the whole range of labor law debate and standards of living debate come into play. There's a reason we have a huge balance of trade deficit, and it's not just oil: Others make the goods (and more than a few of the services) we Americans want and need at far less expensive prices.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I used the word visitor along with the phrase, by silent agreement. Many illegals are here in this country because people will hire them with or without proper papers. It makes little difference what the laws are if those governed will knowingly break the law to pay reduced wages and line their own pockets with the proceeds. These actions are widespread and silent. If Amercians were in agreement on this issue, the illegals would respect our borders with or without 15 foot fences. Employers are not prosecuted when found out and they pay minimal fines when nabbed. Illeagals openly stand out on the street corneers and wait to be picked up by people needing day labors. The police drive by and look the other way while employers reap the harvest. Other problems happen when this occurs. People that are not skilled are hired to do skilled labor and those that did the skilled labor before are then put out of a job. Just watch for the long-term benefits of this saving to pay it's dividends. So yes, they are visitors as long as people will hire them and not abide by the existing laws. The confusion will only grow and make for a more difficult situation that someone else will have to pay for later. FB

[Trevorum]

I never been a big fan of the Star Spangled Banner as an anthem. The lyrics are great but the tune is barely singable for most folks. The only part that most people seem to get right is the epilogue: "Play Ball!"

 

Nonetheless, I abhor the way it is often mangled by pop "singers" who inflict their own style onto the music. An operatic style is best, I think. Did anyone ever hear Jim Nabors sing it? That being said, I really would like to hear it sung in Spanish. Or French for that matter. I'll bet it sounds beautiful in any language.

[NJCubScouter]

I will leave it to others to debate immigration policy and the relative merits of "The Star Spangled Banner," except to quote the humorous "history" book "It All Started With Columbus":

 

"In an attempt to take Baltimore, the British attacked Fort McHenry, which protected the harbor. Bombs were soon bursting in air, rockets were glaring, and all in all it was a moment of great historical interest. During the bombardment, a young lawyer named Francis Scott Key wrote The Star-Spangled Banner, and when, by the dawn's early light, the British heard it sung, they fled in terror!"

 

As for "Nuestra Himno," I would quote that other great American, Sean Connery... er, that great Scotsman, Sean Connery, who, while playing a Soviet submarine captain in "The Hunt For Red October," said (in, inexplicably, his usual Scottish accent) these immortal words:

 

Let them sing.

 

[packsaddle]

Hey, NJ, Nice to read you again!

The following link is one of many that gives a brief history of the tune and words:

http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~gilbertn/Star-Spangled-Banner.html

As someone mentioned, the tune predates the Francis Scott Key version of the words and has an interesting history. And it wasn't our national anthem until 1931. "Play ball!" might just as well be part of it. I guess those who object to the recent version probably objected to Jimie Hendrix's version as well. Maybe even Jose Feliciano's version.

 

But the interesting thing is that the law establishing it as the national anthem DOES NOT specify the words. So Spanish is just fine as long as the old drinking tune is preserved.

And as for the admonition of our marginally literate president, I agree with Scoutldr....W could use some work on English as well, muy mucho.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I guess since we are all immigrants the national anthem should be sung in either totally in English as its the traditional language or if we want to value diversity it should be sung in languages, is there a clever enough linguist to cobble together Chippewa, Iraquois, Lakota, Sioux, German, Italian Polish, Gaelic, Russian, Portugese, Spainish, Armenian, Czech, Hungarian, Greek, Turk, French (yes, even French)Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Mandarin Chinese, Cantonese Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Indian (as from India)Pakistani and all the rest into in one song.

 

Then again, maybe only in English is the best approach