New Topic - Now What?

[scoutingagain]

So Rooster7 moves on, and I miss him too, and the whole Issues & Politics sections dries up.

 

Just to stir up the pot a little.

 

What about all these Generals asking for Rumsfeld's head? Maybe he should step down but why didn't they say anything earlier?

 

At first, as bad as this whole Iraq thing was to start with, it did seem to quiet down some other would be bad guys like Momar, in Libya, and Syria. Now, knowing we have very limited military options, Iran seems to be thumbing it's nose at us and the rest of the world. What are our option there? I must admit the thought of an Iranian Nuke give me real shivers.

 

Not to mention the whole immigration thing. I read that now that there is active debate in Congress about a system that would allow illegal immigrants a path towards citizenship or at least permanent residency there is a rush on our borders.

 

McCain, all of a sudden, appears to be the front runner for the R's in 2008. What's the Christian Right think about him now? Or has the experience with Bush sufficiently marginalized the Christian Right? Would they rather support a Morman like Romney? Is there a currently electable Christian Right candidate that is not too closely tied to the current administration?

 

Have a Happy Easter, Passover, Spring Festival or whatever you enjoy this weekend and comeback ready to talk!

 

If not, I may have to actually do more work during the day and get home on time and SWMBO will make me rake the lawn now that it's light out later.

 

SA

[SR540Beaver]

I'm kind of all typed out right now, so I'll just take on the Rummy question. Why didn't they say anything before? Most of them were active military when the war started. Military officers don't get the luxury of speaking against their leaders in public. Those that do, like Zinni did in the run up to the war, end up like Zinni......marginalized and retired. Bush and Rummy were not looking for advice from the professionals. They were looking for can do guys to carry out their wishes.

 

This morning I heard one of the right wing radio talking heads spinning the story by pointing out that other Generals such as USMC General Peter Pace who is Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff had not criticized Rummy. Well DUH, who does he work for? In his position, he can't say anything....just like the Generals who are speaking out now couldn't when they were active. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say a few years down the road.

[Backpacker]

Romney is the Rep. version of Kerry so he doesnt stand a chance. Look for Rice vs Clinton in 2008, now that would be an interesting race.

 

As far as Rooster is concerned, I kinda miss him, but not his brand of religious intolerance and prejudice. He was always the first to condemn others rather than listen to opposing viewpoints. On the farms when a rooster gets too old and crotchity the farmer usually shoots it, still I will miss arguing with him.

[packsaddle]

My opinion on Rumsfeld is that early on the administration really shared his arrogance. Now I think they just can't admit publicly to his (and their) monumental blunders - they think it would cost them too much politically. And this is partly because the commander-in-chief has led an entire life of easy privilege, arrogance, and personal deception. He just can't see any other way. They are without honor.

 

[evmori]

Gotta love it! Religious intolerance and prejudice! Some people just completely miss the point!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Easter to all!

[BrentAllen]

Hey Backpacker,

Religious intolerance and prejudice - I guess we should buy this, along with your "70% of farmland in US is owned by foreigners" statement. The following is from the USDA, the agency you referenced to back your hillarious claim:

 

Despite earlier concern over foreign ownership of land, data collected through the AFIDA show that foreigners have consistently owned approximately 1 percent of agricultural land during the past two decades. Most of the changes in foreigners agricultural land holdings result from changes in the ownership of forestland. Changes in foreign ownership of forestland are largely due to transactions by large timber companies that may involve millions of acres (Blevins and Smith).

 

As usual, you never let the facts get in the way of a good story, right? You must be fun around the campfire - creating some really wild tales! Please remember - just because you created the thought in your mind - it doesn't make it true. Awaiting your next "creative" attempt at the truth...

[packsaddle]

OK, I'm confused. I have reread this short thread and I don't see anything about farmland ownership. At first I was afraid that I had responded to the wrong thread but now I think I'm merely confused at the turn this has suddenly taken. Please explain.

[BrentAllen]

ps,

Back when the ports deal was being discussed, Backpacker made the claim that 70% of US farmland had been purchased by foreigners - a statement which must be entered into the Galatically Stupid Statements Hall of Fame. When asked where such numbers came from, he pointed us to the USDA. Since he obviously didn't get the numbers from that site, the question remains unanswered. Did he hear it on AirAmerica, or read it on DailyKos or Huffington Post? Did he make it up, and declare it fact? Only he knows... That is where you get most of your information, right? I mean, "they are without honor?" Give me a break!

 

When he makes claims of religious intolerance and prejudice, it is important to remember such ridiculous statements he has made in the past. This is just another one, added to his list.

[Kaji]

I just ignore any accusations people make about being "intolerant" and "prejudiced", because in the end these days, those two words have been reduced to little more than attempts to smear the other side for not agreeing with your point of view. Last I checked, ad hominem attacks are considered a logical fallacy when trying to prove a point...

[Kahuna]

I'll get into the Rumsfeld thing, don't have time to think through everything else.

 

Those generals, in my opinion, are running for SecDef under Hilary or Kerry. They could not have spoken out before retirement, but they certainly could speak their minds to the establishment. If they felt as they say they did, they should have resigned.

 

I saw General Myers, the recently retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, yesterday on Fox. He said that Rumsfeld always listened to the generals and frequently took their advice. He also said the same thing Rumsfeld did: You got hundreds of generals out there and lots of egos.

 

Last, but not least, it is significant that they are all Army generals. No admirals, no Air Force generals. The Army is the service that Rumsfeld has really taken on for reorganization and a lot of generals don't like it.

[Backpacker]

Brent

the only moronic statements I have read come from you, if you knew how to navigate the USDA site you would have found it under corporate purchases of US farmland, 70% were owned by foreign owned or controlled corporations, its there if you know where to look. What that has to do with Rooster just proves you cant stay on topic, per usual.Of course you spout the same intolerance as Rooster used to do, I feel sorry for the guys in your troop.

 

ED, the only one missing points around here is you, too bad BW isn't around anymore he at least kept you in check. So both of you get your facts straight for once before you spout accusations.

[BrentAllen]

Backpacker,

Please do not walk into a battle of wits unarmed.

Let me spell this out for you very carefully, so that you don't embarrass yourself any further. 1% of US farm land is owned by foreign entities. Of that 1%, 72% is owned by foreign corporations, 20% is owned by foreign partnerships, 6% is owned by foreign individuals. The remaining 2% is held by estates, trusts, institutions, associations, and others.

Get it? Only 72% of 1%. That means .72 of 1% is foreign owned, not 70% as you claimed. US corporations or individuals (family farmers) own the other 99%. Should we alert the presses?

 

Just to refresh your memory, let's see exactly what you did claim:

"Why the big deal over the ports when for the last 25 years over 70% of all the American farmland have been sold to Arab and Japanese corporations driving the family farmers out of business, did anyone cry out then, heck no. So now these corporations will have ports to ship all the food they grow in our country to their homelands, and ship in whatever weapons they wish."

Do you write for the Daily Show on the side?? I haven't read anything that funny in a long time! Does Congress know about this!?!?!

Now they don't have the ports and they don't have all that food - I guess we got 'em right where we want 'em, eh??

Now, what were you saying about moronic statements?

And finally, if you could navigate this site and read my profile, you would see I am a Cubmaster. That means I'm affiliated with a Pack, not a Troop. You used to be a professional?(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[packsaddle]

I confess I never fully understood the nature of the interaction between Ed and Bob White. But Ed wasn't alone, many of us (me included) had our brush with the gom jabar.

But then, I remember suggesting a long time ago if Merlyn and Zorn Packte ever met I would like to observe.

I note that Zorn is no longer with us, nor is Bob White. Ed and Merlyn could be viewed as having prevailed if in no other manner than not having quit.

Looks like a similar thing with Backpacker and Brent Allen, maybe not as intense. I shall watch it with interest.

Brent, I get my info from diverse sources but one of the ones I trust the most is 'The Economist' and I read it carefully. The Economist, I think, was correct in immediately calling for Rumsfeld to resign as soon as the Abu Graib scandal broke. Neither they, nor I, have changed since that time. The subsequent information on this administration has only reinforced this opinion and yes, it is my opinion that they are without honor. I see no evidence otherwise. The lies, by now, are so transparent that their denial is, well, denial. If you disagree, please produce the evidence so I can weigh it against what I have read. Thanks.

[evmori]

ED, the only one missing points around here is you, too bad BW isn't around anymore he at least kept you in check. So both of you get your facts straight for once before you spout accusations.

 

What accusations did I make?

 

And BW never kept me or anyone else in check.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Easter to all!

[scoutingagain]

Ahhh! I feel better already.

 

I would hardly describe Romney as a Republican Kerry. Their views on the economy are nearly 180 degrees apart. What they do have in common is a willingness to reach across the policital aisle to get something done.

 

Overall I think Romney has done a great job here in Massachusetts as Governor, keeping an overwhelmingly Democratic Legislature, that never saw a tax opportunity it didn't like, in check, yet managed to pass a comprehensive health insurance bill. I'm not sold on him fully as a President though, mainly because of his limited experience with foriegn policy. He's head and shoulders above the current holder of the office though and he'd get my vote over Kerry or Clinton.

 

I don't know what to think about these Generals. I think the prosecution of the invasion of Iraq went well, (Although entirely unnecessary in my opinion.) but the occupation seems to have been a disaster. 47 additional US Service personnel killed this month alone so far, 3 years after the initial invasion. No one seems to be held accountable for the intelligence failures that got us into the war(and that can be interpreted in a number of ways) or the subsequent mismanagment of the post-invasion occupation. That leaves Bush himself has the buck-holder-in-chief in my opinion. Only 33 months left for this administration.

 

SA