SemperParatus Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Would it make anyone feel better if I told you I know for a fact that PeeWee Harris is a Jainist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 To answer some of these points in no particular order: I don't think BL can assume that the stories are historical and actually happened. An Old Testament prophet causes a drought because Ahab doesn't do what he (or God) wants? Certainly believing or disbelieving that is a matter of faith, not history. Cancel your subscription? Yes, you could leave the BSA, too, but as I understand it, the BSA is not for Christian boys and Jewish boys, but for boys who subscribe to its principles. BL is not some independent magazine, like Scouters Journal. It is the voice of the BSA, which is its publisher. It should be inclusive of all boys, not just the majority religions. Bible stories are not the same as putting as the Ten Commandments on a public building. The Ten Commandments are part of our legal and national heritage. The story of Elijah is not. Both my friend and I are Eagle Scouts of a long ago era. Neither one of us has been reading BL for many years. As I said earlier, Bible stories would not have raised anybody's antenna 50 years ago. I certainly have not been aware of this feature and would have thought it faded away, along with many other examples of how "mainstream" religions were previously taken for granted. I don't think Bible Stories is the same as ads. Yes, I would wonder, too, about some of the ads found in BL. But, an ad is an ad. A feature like Bible Stories is a feature. It has the same presumption of endorsement as would the cover story of the issue I saw about Killer Drugs. You would not expect that article to endorse the use of Xanax or Ambien by Scouts. While adding feature items, like Quran Stories or Dharma Stories, might be more fair to minority religions, it also would present some difficulties to the editors. Yes, what about polygamy? I am sure BL would have no difficulty in finding responsible cartoonists to do age-appropriate strips, depicting other religions, if they sought them out. I doubt that they do. I'm sure BSA is not promoting a particular religion, they are just running a feature that may be of interest to kids. But, I return to my original question: What's it doing in there in the 21st Century. Scouting does have a religious component, of course, but what purpose does it serve for kids to read (if they do read) stories from a particular religious slant? While Scouting has a religious component, it puts itself in the position of appearing to push one point of view. I just do not see BL as a proper forum for religious comic strips. Personally, I don't find the stories offensive, but some would. It just doesn't strike me as a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yesterday, you said... "I have been one of those who has supported the religious requirements and entanglements of the BSA, but I find this offensive." Today, you say... "Personally, I don't find the stories offensive, but some would." I am confused. Are you still offended or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Oh no! Dead atheists contributing to the BSA! Was that the reason for their demise? Wonder if they were atheists when they contributed! Or maybe there are atheists who think the BSA is a good organization! Something to ponder! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ed, kidding aside, there are many, many atheists who recognize the good that Scouting does and who support it. They would join wholeheartedly if allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Sorry to be confusing. The stories don't offend me. The fact that they are in Boys' Life Magazine without any corresponding stories from other religious settings offends me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsRgr8 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 It's not clear to me why you and your friend were offended. The story published is part of the shared history of western culture - would you be offended by Boys Life publishing tales of the Greek gods? Also, the story is part of a religous heritage common to the overwhelming majority of the members of BSA. If you were in India would you be just as offended by a story from the Hindu religion? It seems to me that many people are too easily offended these days, expecially when there is no intent to provoke. Why not contact Boys Life directly and ask them to publish a series from another religious tradition? I wouldn't be offended, and I'm a pretty conservative Christian.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'm registered at a conservative political forum where things often get heated between posters of different political stripes. I'm reminded of what the moderators constantly tell people who complain about postings they don't like. It goes like this, "you don't have the right to not be offended". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Cubs, you're absolutely right! I just dropped an email message to Boy's Life suggesting that. If anyone else thinks that scouts would enjoy stories about the myth-heroes from other faith traditions, you too should let Boy's life know! http://www.boyslife.org/about/contact/askus/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Cubs, that was exactly my point. I wouldn't be offended by stories of Greek gods, Hindu traditions, or the story of the Kingdom of Shambala, a more or less legendary Tibetan kingdom that gave rise to the story of Shangri-la. Neither, probably, would most others. While I agree that stories from the Bible are part of our heritage as a nation, so are many other bits of history and legend. It just seems to me that BL should expand its story base somewhat. I intend to send them a suggestion similar to that of Trevorum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 As I was thinking about what to say to Boys' Life, I refined some of my points and came up with the following: My friend's ten year old is a Buddhist boy. Buddhism has no concept of a god like the Old Testament God. Also, no concept of divine punishment for offending a higher being. And certainly, while there are Buddhist masters who have what could be considered divine qualities (eg, the Dalai Lama), there are none who would call down droughts, plagues or other punishment. So what would his reaction be to reading this story about Elijah calling down a drought on Israel? I assume most of the posters here are Christian. How would you feel about a story of a whole kingdom of people who became so enlightened that they dematerialized and are now in a celestial plane, without the aid of a supernatural being? And whose kings now sit in eternal watchfulness, protecting the enlightened (or those struggling to become enlightened) people down on Earth. Would that give rise to a lot questions from Christian boys? Would you be happy to see that appear in Boys' Life as a comic with the title "Shambala Stories," for it is indeed the story of the Kingdom of Shambala as believed by many Buddhists all over the world. Probably as many people believe that as believe that Jesus was the son of God. Do you see the problem here? There are many non Christian or Jewish boys (I'm not sure what the Muslem take on Elijah is) who read Boys' Life. What's the point of causing them problems? In fact, what's the point of the Bible Stories in general? Is it religious education? If so, why one religion? Is it historical, as suggested above? If so, why not the histories of other religions? If you cannot answer that you would support the Shambala Story I reference above, and I know some who couldn't, then how do you support Bible Stories being in Boys' Life at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Some comments. I seem to recall that in recent Boys' Life issues they run small articles highlighting the various religious awards in the BSA. If you think the BSA is only for judeo-christians, get a copy of the Religious Awards poster. Also, take a look at the new TRUST Award in Venturing. This award is the new advanced Religious/Community Award for Venturers. They expect the Venturer to get to know their religious belief further then what is covered in their particilar religious award, and lists a great deal of different religious belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 This is not about the BSA in general, in fact, I suggest this goes counter to BSA's stated policy and other practices with regard to religion. This is about a specific series in Boys' Life magazine and the question again is: What's it doing in the magazine?(This message has been edited by Kahuna) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 emb021, You are correct on both counts, but that is not the point. Boy's Life does indeed promote all religious awards equally. However, the point here is that the Bible Stories feature prominently promotes ONLY the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious heritage, to the exclusion of equally valuable stories from the Buddhist, Hindu, Confucian, and Native American traditions, just to name a few. Even if you are Jewish or Christian or Islamic, don't you think it would be interesting and enlightening to learn about the stories from other religions as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Trevorum sez: Even if you are Jewish or Christian or Islamic, don't you think it would be interesting and enlightening to learn about the stories from other religions as well? Apparently, some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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