Kudu Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just how do you know how the troop I serve regards the Oath? That would be the Scout Law, OGE, not the Oath. Perhaps you would like to make a postive contribution to the discussion by sharing with us how the Scouts in "the troop you serve" regard the sixth Scout Law, rather than engaging in your customary trivial personal attacks. I mean, who cares if the Scout in the PETA commercial is a sophomore in college now? Kudu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just to throw my two cents in... Anyone who refuses to put human life above that of an animal's deserves to be first in line if/when that standard is ever applied. PETA is absurd. However, those who refuse to see that absurdity are even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I apologize Kudu, I was more than a little testy when I posted that. It does seem you slam the BSA program any time you get a chance and I was reacting to that. (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 PETA are no different than terrorists. Their tactics are deplorable and their cause isn't even a worthy one. Sure animal shouldn't be abused. I'm all for putting those behind bars who abuse animals. But fishing is cruelty to animals! So is hunting! I proposed PETA is cruelty to human beings! And when did animals get rights? Did we vote on that? PETA = Pink Elephants Think Alike Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWScouter Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I meant ALF, not ELF. ALF: Animal Liberation Front. PETA would be very pleased in giving animals the same legal status as humans. For example, If you hit a deer driving, you could be indicted for manslaughter, and if you intentionally killed a deer, you could be indicted for murder. That is, after all, what animal rights means, and yes, animal rights does go completely against judeo-christian doctrine. Ingrid Newkirk of PETA, among others, does have quite a radical view of things. Ozemu, if you were driving at night and happened to go around a curve and hit and kill, e.g., an emu, do you feel that the law should be able to indict you for manslaughter or murder? That is animal rights, and that is way different than an animals right to life. In the bible that I read, God gives man dominion over all the beasts of the world. But let me also say that having dominion over something does not mean one can relinquish his or her responsibility to be a good and humane steward. SWScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 PETA uses extreme rhetoric to make the news. If they toned it down, nobody would even be discussing these issues. If they can convince the public to come just 10% their way, they have won. However, why is it that it is more exceptable to catch and release, than catch and eat? To me, catch and eat fulfills a basic human need to stay alive (for the human). But catch and release is purely for the entertainment of the fisherman at the expense of the fish. The fish certainly doesn't enjoy it or for that matter gain any benefit whatsoever except to be placed back in the river to be tormented by yet another fisherman. Are these catch and release fisherman really better people than the ones who kill the fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozemu Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi SWScouter, the semantics of animal rights and animals right to life are not really important to me. I suppose PETA doesn't have much impact on me either. So. The Scout law/oath and my personal view I believe line up pretty well. These things define right and wrong. What the civil law says is grey and even dark to me. The emu on the road would get much the same reaction out of me as a Scout. I would say a prayer for both. I would remember with horror both images for the rest of my life. If starving I would eat the emu and protect the scout. I have killed a calf with a knife so that we could all eat. I have killed a goat and a cat that were badly hurt and in pain. I held my fathers hand while the doctors 'pain relief' allowed him to die. I catch spiders and put them outside but I will kill flies as they effect my food. As Kudu said 'protecting from pain or for food' but not for fun or a challenge. Gern has a fair question. These are my views, and I am not trying to make them yours. But it is definately worth discussing and not just looking for precedant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 How do we know the fish doesn't like Catch & Release? Has anyone asked the fish? Isn't Catch & Release for fish sort of like Hide 'n Seek for humans? I know I'd rather be released than eaten! And I sure the fish would feel that way, too, if the fish had feelings. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Ed, I'm sure the fish would rather hang out under rocks eating bugs than piercing its lip with a steel hook dressed up to look like a bug and be yanked out of the water to temporarily suffocate while the ecstatic fisherman squeezes the snot out of it while retrieving his phony bug with a pliers. I'm not giving the fish much credit on whether it has a consciousness to even decide which scenario is better, but I know what I would decide if I was the fish. After all, fish are God's creatures too and to use them expressly for entertainment while torturing them just doesn't seem right. Imagine the uproar if we did the same thing with Labrador puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 EagleInKY, I also always thought it meant, "People Eating Tasty Animals". So again my wife is saying, if the PETA supporters would just be faithful to their ideals and reject all medical treatments that were developed using animal tests, this situation would correct itself fairly quickly. So Judy, where are you guys going fishing. If I am back from Yellowstone in time, I might just take you up on the offer. BTW, regarding catch-and-release, there have been studies that show for some species (and this is also size-dependent) the stress of the catch is enough to doom a large fraction of that catch. I have observed this for striped bass. For example after a morning of a heavy catch and release, an hour or so later, many of those fish are dead or dying on the surface, hook wounds easily recognizable. (Of course if one is quick with the dip net, fillet knife, and a cooler....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Ozemu, The emu on the road would get much the same reaction out of me as a Scout. I would say a prayer for both. I would remember with horror both images for the rest of my life. If youre saying that your sense of loss for a Scout (i.e. a person) would be no greater than that of an emu, then no its definitely not worth discussing. Heres a horrible image that I have in my headIts of a Scouter who cannot discern the difference between a hairy bird that mindlessly eats grass and bugs for most of its waking hours, and a young boy with hopes, dreams, and aspirations, which no animal has the mind to comprehend (and alas, apparently some humans dont have this capacity either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Has anyone seen the DVD or film Madagascar and seen how fish are portrayed in that film? It is clearly a specieist film placing mammals above fish. There should be an organization or something to prevent this kind of specieist propaganda. If fish had feelings I'm quite sure they would be hurt by the way they are portrayed in this film. (Which, all specieist propaganda aside, I found to be quite humorous while watching with my nephews.) SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 OldGreyEagle writes: It does seem you slam the BSA program any time you get a chance and I was reacting to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherJudy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hey Pack! We take a charter boat out of Captree State Park on the South Shore of Long Island & fish on the Great South Bay. The 1st year we went I caught 2 fluke & a cold, it was raining! The mates even filet the fish for you! It was nice to have fresh fish! This year the boat leaves at 3:30pm! ScoutingAgain, I saw Madagascar & the only thing I can remember is the song "you've got to move it, move it" because my 2 kids sing that a lot! LOL! I'll have to check out the "specialist propaganda". I wonder if PETA knows about this? In my opinion, I'd rather see testing done on animals than humans as I do rate humans better than animals. Of course there are a few humans who are lower than animals. I see nothing wrong with testing on rats & mice as they bring disease & other things & they are pests. PETA I think is a little whacked out in their thinking, especially about this fishing thing! It's nice to be kind to animals but don't put animals equal or above humans. I would never intentionally hurt any animal but if it's between me & an animal or my kids & an animal, the animal has to be taken care of. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Gern, Why does the fish go after the bait? Instinct. Can a fish decide whether it will take the bait or not? Nope. Fish do things based on instinct, not because they can reason. God gave us dominion over the animals. He didn't make them equal to man. PETA seems to think a newt and a 13 year old boy are the same. These people need to get a life! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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