war on Christmas

[ronvo]

OK I am very much a separation of church and state guy.

And I believe our organization should rethink some of its polocies.

 

I believe that this guy has all the first amendemnt rights of any citizen.

 

However I do think it wrong he would use a scouting background for his Declaration of War. He must have some other problems besides the ones he has with Christianity.

 

http://www.thegodmovie.com./press.php

 

http://www.thegodmovie.com./images/declaration-of-war800x1063.jpg

 

 

Happy Holidays to All,

ron

 

Ultimately, America's answer to the intolerant man is diversity, the very diversity which our heritage of religious freedom has inspired.

-Robert F. Kennedy

[bbng]

I agree completely with this statement:

 

However I do think it wrong he would use a scouting background for his Declaration of War.

 

Sketches of BSA insignia are used in 3 of 4 corners, and there is no apparerent reason for that in his blog, the declaration, or the write-up of the movie he's selling.(This message has been edited by bbng)

[evmori]

Total junk. And the separation of church & state appears nowhere in the Constitution.

 

And if Christ wasn't born we wouldn't have Christmas!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

ronvo writes:

However I do think it wrong he would use a scouting background for his Declaration of War. He must have some other problems besides the ones he has with Christianity.

 

Since he's an atheist, it really shouldn't be that hard to guess what problems he has with scouting.

[ronvo]

Ed,

 

Obiviously we wouldn't have Christmas without some people believing in Christ.

 

Not that I think you are correct, but I said nothing about the Constitution of the United States nor about any of its amendments.

 

I said "I am a separation of chruch and state guy."

 

Merlyn, No Doubt! Actually I began to wonder if he even knows what it is or if he just found an image file somewher and liked it.

 

I would like to see this film to see what his view is and what evidence he presents. I am sure many here wouldn't.

 

pax,

ronvo

 

It is the nature, and the advantage, of strong people that they can bring out the crucial questions and form a clear opinion about them. The weak always have to decide between alternatives that are not their own. - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

 

 

[Rooster7]

Ronvo,

 

Okay...so you're "a separation of church and state guy". I'm not entirely sure what that means outside of the context of purported Constitutional arguments. Regardless, it seems to me, it has no meaning whatsoever in regard to Scouting. What does the "separation of church and state" have to do with a private organization's goals of mentoring young boys?

 

And Merlyn, I already know your response (i.e., the BSA dishonestly solicits the support of public entities blah, blah, blah, or something along those lines), so please spare us.

 

[Kudu]

Fox News' John Gibson's book The War on Christmas got a very favorable review on the "Colbert Report."

 

To see the video, click on "Xmas" at the following URL:

 

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_colbert_report/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml

 

Ed writes:

 

And if Christ wasn't born we wouldn't have Christmas!

 

I believe you are thinking of the god Saturn, Ed. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was born on December 25th?

 

This year, let us all remember the original holy meaning of the holiday, and put "Saturn" back in Saturnalia!

 

Rooster7 writes:

 

What does the "separation of church and state" have to do with a private organization's goals of mentoring young boys?

 

Constitutional arguments aside, Congress established a monopoly on Scouting for a private, self-described "faith-based" "religious organization."

 

Leftists, liberals, and moderate Republicans do not talk about it because they share with neo-conservatives the security that comes from having the government pick the best corporations--they would merely prefer that the monopoly reflect their values :-/

 

Rather than trying to change the BSA (which only strengthens the BSA's perceived legitimacy), churches that do not share the BSA's "deeply-held" fundamentalist values should turn their backs on mere reformist organizations like "Scouting for All," and instead organize alternative Scouting associations that share the positive Scouting values found in most (if not all) Western democracies but ours.

 

Kudu

[GernBlansten]

Absolute Separation of Church and State grants me the right to worship as I please. It amazes me that the most religous people in our society don't see that.

[evmori]

I believe you are thinking of the god Saturn, Ed. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was born on December 25th?

 

Your belief is wrong.

 

Break down the word Christmas and you get Christ festival. Seems pretty apparent to me.

 

Were Washington & Lincoln born on the 4th Monday in February? Was Marting Luther King born on the 3rd Monday in January? December 25th is the day we celebrate Christs birth. Same thing.

 

So if Christ was never born we wouldn't have Christmas!

 

What churches that do not share the BSA's "deeply-held" fundamentalist values? I think the one I am a member of holds the same values. And I think there are more just like mine than not.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[OldGreyEagle]

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[theysawyoucomin']

"The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach."

 

Justice Hugo Black

 

 

Anybody who uses those words should do a tiny bit of research on "Justice" Black and see just who they are planting their flag with. Research for yourself and tell me all the positives about Black.

 

 

This appointment was not one of FDR finest hours.

 

Oh, if only we had a somewhat educated Republic.

 

[DanKroh]

The problem I see with the supposed "war on Christmas" is that Christmas is not the only holiday celebrated in December.

 

In fact, this year, the first night of Hannukah falls on December 25th, as well. And there are various other non-Christians who celebrate December holidays such as Kwanza (sp?), Yule, and yes, even Saturnalia.

 

It seems that the Christians who want to make a big deal about someone saying "Happy Holidays" are asking, nay, DEMANDING, that others respect their holiday and their observance of their holiday without offering ANY respect for the observances of others in return.

 

For instance, Bill O'Reilly publically offering Jon Stewart a "Merry Christmas" when he KNOWS that Stewart is Jewish. And I won't even get into how using the greeting "Merry Christmas" like a blungeon is respectful to the spirit of Christmas (that would be, NOT).

 

Yes, the majority of Americans celebrate Christmas. So I guess it is ok to ignore the celebrations (and the rights) of the minority simply because they are in the minority.

 

Personally, I have no problem with Christmas. I celebrate it like I do any other day of recognition for the life of a great teacher and philosopher. It's right up there with MLK Jr. Day in my book, and President's Day. If there was a Gandhi Day, I'd celebrate that with enthusiasm, too.

 

But if you are going to put your nativity scene in my town square, then let the Jews put up a Menorah next to it, and let me put up my image of the Holly King on the other side. And anyone else who wants to put up a symbol of their December celebrations.

 

What it boils down to is, like in so many other things, if you want respect for your holiday, offer respect for the holidays of others in return.

 

And a blessed Yule to you all.

[GernBlansten]

Isn't the origin of Holiday "holy days" ?

I giggle when I hear the O'Rielly types rail against the use of Happy Holidays as anti-religious.

[Kudu]

Break down the word Christmas and you get Christ festival. Seems pretty apparent to me.

 

Ed, break down the word "Saturnalia" and you get the neuter plural of saturnalis of Saturn, from Saturnus. Seems pretty apparent to me :-/

 

The term "Christmas" was only a temporary victory in the Christian's war on Saturnalia, 336 A.D. Fox News is reporting that they lost the war to the secular humanists in 2005.

 

So if Christ was never born we wouldn't have Christmas!

 

If Christ was never born we would still be celebrating Saturnalia on December 25th; the Feast of Sol Invicta, the Unconquered Sun on December 25; Brumalia, Winter Solstice on pre-Julian calendar (December 25); and (of interest to the Scouting community) the associated holiday festival of Dies Juvenalis, Coming of Age for Young Men (mid-December).

 

Legacies of Saturnalia in contemporary holiday celebrations:

 

Religious Rituals -- joining in spiritual community to honor the Divine.

Honored Figures -- Santa and Father Time -- Saturn; Holy Mother -- Ops.

Sacred Flames -- candles lit and new fires kindled to represent new Solar year.

Greens -- Holly given with gifts, homes decorated with wreaths and garlands.

Time Off from Work -- government, schools, businesses closed; multiple days off.

Peace -- dispensing of punishments suspended and courts closed; wars ceased.

Relaxing with Family and Friends -- renewing bonds, sharing celebration.

Gift Giving -- dolls to children, candles to friends; fruit symbols representing increase.

Feasting -- sharing food with family and friends; on-going eating and drinking.

Helping Less Fortunate -- class distinctions suspended; food for all; masters waiting on servants.

Exhuberant Play -- masquerades, gaming, gambling, mock king, jokes, partying, letting loose.

Paper Hats -- soft hats (pilei) worn at Saturnalia banquets to signify informality.

Dancing in the New Solar Year -- music and dancing.

 

http://www.circlesanctuary.org/pholidays/SaturnaliaInfo.html

 

Kudu

[evmori]

If Christ was never born we would still be celebrating Saturnalia on December 25th

 

And Saturnalia is celebrate where now? The Roman Empire no longer exists. Whereas Christianity does.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all