When classes are out, religious clubs increasingly are in

[fgoodwin]

When classes are out, religious clubs increasingly are in

 

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2005/11/15/when_classes_are_out_religious_clubs_increasingly_are_in/

http://tinyurl.com/dodmh

 

By James Vaznis, Globe Staff | November 15, 2005

 

NEWTON -- The rabbi walks through the halls of Newton South High School, wearing a yarmulke and carrying stacks of pizza and donuts. Along the way, the 38-year-old rabbi with the reddish beard and an infectious smile asks students to join him at an afterschool meeting of the Jewish Student Union.

 

If a student hedges, Rabbi Shmuel Miller mentions the free food.

 

Miller is among a growing number of religious leaders around the nation who are taking advantage of a four-year-old US Supreme Court ruling that allows religious groups to meet in public schools when classes are not in session. In Massachusetts, the first Jewish Student Union club opened last year at Newton South; this year, chapters of the national nonprofit began in Brookline, Lexington, and Framingham. Evangelical Christians have been running clubs in the last few years in some Boston elementary schools and in some rural towns.

 

As some principals are banning Christmas trees, menorahs, or Halloween costumes, others are warming to the presence of religious clubs in their schools. They say the clubs' regular dose of religion is improving discipline among younger students and giving older students of minority religions a sense of camaraderie.

 

''I certainly welcome it," said Deborah Dancy, principal of William Ellery Channing Elementary School in Hyde Park, where Child Evangelism Fellowship opened a Good News Bible Club this year. ''The children who participate in the program are much more courteous, cooperative, and respectful. Anything we can do to reduce discipline problems and develop character we are willing to do at this school."

 

In some cases, groups that monitor separation of church and state worry that the clubs are becoming too much a part of a school's fabric, because teachers are leading them or students are registering them as official high school clubs. The Supreme Court ruling didn't set restrictions on how the religious clubs should operate in public schools, leaving the ruling open to interpretation. Schools and legal groups have been struggling to figure out how the ruling fits in with an existing federal law that governs equal access to school buildings by outside groups.

 

''The lines are getting blurrier, and that's most unfortunate," said Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. ''One of the great strengths of American schools has been neutrality in religions."

 

To help school districts wade through the murky waters, the Anti-Defamation League has developed guidelines for public schools. Religious groups can advertise meetings, but need parental permission for students to participate, according to the guidelines. In high schools, students must initiate and run official student clubs, while school leaders must avoid being seen as endorsing or disapproving of a faith, the guidelines say.

 

At meetings of the Jewish Student Union in the Boston area, students play games, watch videos, and discuss a variety of topics, including whether eating kosher is an outdated Jewish ritual and why so many well-known comedians are Jewish. The rabbi and his 26-year-old assistant, Yisrael Schwartz, guide the discussion.

 

The Jewish Student Union is a nonprofit organization that says it is not affiliated with any branch of Judaism and is open to students of all faiths. An Orthodox rabbi started it three years ago in Los Angeles, as a response to what he saw as proselytizing by evangelical Christians. The group now has 150 chapters in the United States and Canada.

 

Miller said the clubs in New England are invaluable in connecting him with teens who don't attend programs at synagogues.

 

''We're fighting the battle of assimilation where Jews are opting out [of their faith] out of ignorance," said Miller, an Orthodox rabbi and the New England director for the Jewish Student Union. ''With the increasing pressure of school work, we need to go to students on their ground and speak to them on their level."

 

Sometimes, as they work with the students, the rabbi and his assistant sound like MTV hosts trying to galvanize youth into political action. His voice increasingly rising, Schwartz recently spoke to roughly 30 students at a meeting of the newly established Jewish Student Union at Lexington High School.

 

''Invite and bring a friend to the next meeting. Let's really pump this club," Schwartz said, gesturing with his fist. ''You are part of something big. . . . We're going to rock this school."

 

On average, the weekly Jewish Student Union meetings at Massachusetts schools draw about 30 students, some of whom are Christians, the rabbi said. Students have applied to their principals to get a union chapter approved as an official school club. The clubs elect officers and appear in the yearbook a student activity.

 

Linnea Sage, 17, joined Newton South's club last year and has become the club's president.

 

''If you're just with friends, you'll discuss clothes, boys, and movies, but here, you can listen to people's ideas" about Judaism and Jewish culture, said Sage, who is Jewish.

 

Michael Welch, who was principal at Newton South when the club started, said he had been concerned the rabbi might proselytize and questioned whether having the word Jewish in the group's name might seem exclusionary.

 

''For the most part, it's an open, engaging group for kids to study Jewish culture," said Welch, now principal of Framingham High School. ''I didn't see it as proselytizing at all."

 

But the rabbi and his assistant might be pushing the envelope in what's allowed under federal law by being so involved in the regular running of a high school club meeting, said Lynn.

 

Miller said he and Schwartz are facilitators, while the students are the ones who call the shots and choose discussion topics from a menu of 30 or 40.

 

Marjorie Woods, the 16-year-old president of Lexington's club, said it would have been difficult starting the club without the rabbi and his assistant.

 

''I think we would run out of stuff to talk about, and people would stop coming," Woods said.

 

Groups that favor separation of church and state say interpretation of the ruling will be tested by religious leaders, especially evangelical Christians who see public schools as fertile ground to deliver messages. The Child Evangelism Fellowship's Good News Clubs were the plaintiffs in the 2001 Supreme Court case filed against a public school in New York state. Since winning the case, the group has quintupled its presence in public schools, to 2,330 clubs.

 

Child Evangelism Fellowship officials say that biblical stories, memorization of Scripture, and singing religious songs are good character-building exercises for students and are applicable to children of all faiths. They deny they are proselytizing.

 

''The main thrust of the Good News Club is to help children understand that God loves them and cares about them," said Myron Tschetter, vice president of USA ministries for Child Evangelism Fellowship.

 

At Pauline A. Shaw Elementary School in Dorchester, nearly 60 students, about one-fifth of the student body, gather each Tuesday after school for Good News Club. Principal Maudlin Wright said she believes that the group's popularity reflects a demographic shift in the school's neighborhood with more Haitian and West Indian immigrants moving in. They want to make sure their children develop strong values and stay out of trouble, she said.

 

''From my perspective, we have a lot more respect and positive discipline," Wright said.

[Hunt]

I assume this was posted to note that these groups are "in" at the schools while BSA units are "out." I will just point out that BSA units can still meet in schools--they just can't be chartered to the school. I think that is different from being an official school club--although I have to wonder about these organizations with adults who come in from the outside to proselytize--can they honestly be called student-run clubs?

I think it was a Good News Bible Club that caused the end of so-called "backpack mail" in my locality. The School Board wanted to exclude the Bible Club's mailings--because they were too evangelistic, I guess, and they learned that the only way to do that was to ban "backpack mail" from essentially all outside organizations, including Scouting. This really hurt scout recruiting.

[Lisabob]

Hunt, I'm curious about your statement that units can't be chartered to schools? Does that include PTOs? Around here the majority of cub packs are chartered through public school PTOs although relatively few troops are.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[Hunt]

Lisabob, there are several answers to your question. The short one is that BSA has announced that units should no longer be chartered by public schools themselves. This is because of threats of lawsuits alleging that for a public school to charter a BSA unit is impermissible because of BSA's religious requirement. There are strong feelings on both sides of that issue, but BSA decided not to fight that battle. Units chartered by public schools have been instructed to find new COs.

Many units are still sponsored by PTAs and PTOs. Some people think that this, too, constitutes too much entanglement with the public school, and that it is also impermissible. I don't think that view would prevail in the courts. (I also don't think a PTA is typically the ideal CO, but that's just my personal opinion.)

 

Again, you have to distinguish between a unit that is chartered by a school and one that simply meets in a school.

[eagle90]

For the past 52 years our troop and pack have been sponsored by a school's parent/teacher organization. Not the ideal sponsor, but workable.

[Prairie_Scouter]

Last year, the PTA in Illinois sent a letter to the local PTA's suggesting that they not sponsor Scout Troops because of problems with insurance. I don't know for sure, but was told that at least part of this was potential problems being caused by the perception that the newer BSA adult leader app was pushing leader liability down to the CO. I think that this interpretation was wrong as far as insurance is concerned, but that's what I heard.

[fgoodwin]

Hunt, I appreciate your comments.

 

Actually, the reason I posted the article had nothing to do with the headline. But I did find these two quotes especially interesting:The children who participate in the program are much more courteous, cooperative, and respectful. Anything we can do to reduce discipline problems and develop character we are willing to do at this school.

 

From my perspective, we have a lot more respect and positive discipline.

Not to say that kids who don't go to these clubs can't also be more courteous, cooperative, respectful and disciplined.

 

But the fact that two principals noticed this enough to comment positively on it leads me to wonder if the same couldn't be said of kids who participate in Scouting (whether after school or otherwise)?

[Rooster7]

I think it was a Good News Bible Club that caused the end of so-called "backpack mail" in my locality. The School Board wanted to exclude the Bible Club's mailings--because they were too evangelistic, I guess, and they learned that the only way to do that was to ban "backpack mail" from essentially all outside organizations, including Scouting.

 

What is too evangelistic? And, who gets to decide that?

 

Evidently, this local school board is so against the free exercise of religious speech; they are willing to censor all non-school related materials. Inappropriate materials aside (i.e. pornographic, hate speech, etc.), I find their actions regarding this matter to be reprehensible. They are attempting to be every childs parent. If the materials do not align with the familys beliefs, then its a simple matter between parent and child dont accept those materials, or throw them in the thrash. Likewise for Scouting, if parents object to the organization, they can instruct their child to discard the flyer. Its not complicated. However, it is quite intrusive and arrogant when school boards make these kinds of decisions. They may think it takes a village to raise a child, but I dont want those idiots in my house.

 

I hope there are people and organizations in your area resisting these self-appointed overseers of the public good.

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

Rooster, where would you draw the line on what would be "too evangelistic"? How about a flyer that says "If you're not , you will burn in Hell. Come to this Sunday". Would that be ok to put into 3rd graders mailbox? Or, "Only the knows the true Savior. See us." Or, how about a flyer with a picture of an aborted fetus with the caption, "this could have been you. Come to "Church of your choice" to learn why". Ok for a 7th grader? By the time the flyer gets home, the kid's already seen it; too late for the parent to throw it away.

 

You asked why the schools should get to censor, yet you made up your own list of "inappropriate materials". I don't think anyone would disagree with your list, but, in the same vein as your comment, why do you get to choose what's inappropriate? From the perspective of a Jewish parent, religious flyers of any kind might be considered inappropriate.

 

It occurs to me that what you're talking about isn't really expression of religious freedom, it's just advertising.

 

I doubt that the schools have the time to review every flyer that everyone would like to put into their student's mailboxes, so very little is allowed in there that isn't directly school-related. I think it's less censoring religious freedom than it is just keeping out needless junkmail. And of course, in most areas, school boards aren't "self appointed". They're elected by the people in their school districts, supposedly reflecting the views of those people.

[scoutingagain]

Rooster,

 

I agree with you. This group seems to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I could see how some of their literature may have crossed a line, just like the Rabbi in the article may be pushing the envelope with respect to preaching religion vrs having a religious club, but rather than address the real issue they took the easy way out and denied opportunity for everyone.

 

Pop Quiz, What have we learned from these threads?

 

Why can a school officially sponsor a Jewish Student Union or a Good News Bible Club, but not a Scout Unit?

 

Just 'cause there maybe some out there wondering.

 

SA

[GernBlansten]

Pop Quiz, What have we learned from these threads?

 

Why can a school officially sponsor a Jewish Student Union or a Good News Bible Club, but not a Scout Unit?

 

If the Jewish Student Union or Good News Bible Club invited anyone to join regardless of their religious affiliation or sexual preference, then yes, a school could sponsor such an organization. If they discriminated membership based on those attributes, then no they should not sponsor them. Schools are about equal access. Its not just a good idea, its the law.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

scoutingagain asks:

Why can a school officially sponsor a Jewish Student Union or a Good News Bible Club, but not a Scout Unit?

 

What schools officially sponsor a Jewish Student Union or a Good News Bible Club, comparable to chartering a Scout unit?

 

That is, is the school required to select leadership for the Jewish Student Union or Good News Bible Club, and apply a religious test to potential leaders? That's what they have to do for a Scout unit, and they can't legally do that.

 

I suspect all examples of "offical sponsorship" of a Jewish Student Union or a Good News Bible Club aren't that at all, but instead are non-school groups meeting in schools on the same basis as any other outside group, and the school can't decide which religious groups it allows in - they have to accept all.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

GernBlansten writes:

If the Jewish Student Union or Good News Bible Club invited anyone to join regardless of their religious affiliation or sexual preference, then yes, a school could sponsor such an organization.

 

No, they couldn't. If the school allows outside groups to meet in the school, outside groups can create the above groups - but that isn't sponsorship, and the school would then have no say in their membership rules. Same as how they are (finally) having to treat the BSA.

 

As far as PTAs/PTOs, there was a recent story here:

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=87483

...

Cub Scout Pack 530 was sponsored by Castlio Elementary School in St. Charles County for 20 years until the school pulled out after the ACLU'S nationwide threat to sue. Some parents are upset because the parent-teacher organization at Castlio decided not to sponsor the pack, after being requested to do so.

 

When a new PTO Board was seated this year, members talked with an attorney and decided the organization was at risk legally by sponsoring the Scouts. "The ACLU has left the door open for litigation in this matter," says Castlio PTO President Mary Johnson.

...

 

PTAs/PTOs are likely to be considered public accommodations, which prevents them from practicing religious discrimination.

[Hunt]

What Merlyn should really have said is that ACLU may decide to challenge PTA/PTO charters of BSA units, and one of the grounds they may argue is that the PTA/PTO is a public accomodation. Some PTA's may decide that they don't want to take the risk of litigation, even if they think they'd win. This is what is suggested by the article Merlyn quotes. Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that the federal courts would agree with Merlyn's interpretation. That argument failed when directed against BSA itself, and would probably fail as against PTAs as well. I also question whether the ACLU will really have the stomach for such a lawsuit either. So far, they haven't, as far as I know.

But Merlyn is right that there is a difference between actually owning the charter of a unit and simply allowing a group to meet at the school.

 

As far as the "backpack mail" situation I described, the school board indeed banned mail from (virtually) all non-school organizations in order to ban the evangelistic messages from one group. There were other makeweight arguments, such as the hassle of having to manage all the mail, but it was clear to everybody that this was makeweight. I think they probably decided that rather than get involved in more litigation over content-based censorship, they would just throw it all out.

[SeattlePioneer]

I find it amusing that the ADL recommends that children be required to get written permission from parents to attend a religious club in a school that probably makes referrals for abortions without notifying anyone.

 

 

Seattle Pioneer