America

[scoutingagain]

Rooster,

 

I don't normally correct spelling. But as one of Slovak decent I couldn't help but notice the reference to Chezc? I believe you mean

Czech, or is there some other Eastern European country with a C & Z in it? The Slovaks I know think Czechs should learn to speak proper Slovak.

 

And yes, may God bless the USA, and Merry Christmas, although I believe a Happy Yom Kippur is more timely.

 

And I'm sorry, if a disorganized rant is somehow meant to be a critique of politically correct revisionist history, I must still confess, I didn't make that connection.

 

SA

 

 

[Rooster7]

SA,

 

Yes - thanks for the prompt, yet embarrassing, correction. I indeed meant to say Czech.

 

As for the disorganized rant - I'm not sure how disorganize it was or wasn't, but I knew instantly what the author meant. And I think many others do as well. Unfortunately, in today's politically correct world, when one tries to explain these feelings, they are easily misinterpreted and/or twisted into something that sounds more akin to latent bigotry than outrage for a proud heritage that's being maligned. I love my countrys history good, bad, and indifferent because it makes us who we are today. Also, I am proud of the Christians that came to this country and made their mark. So, when others try to downplay, wipe out, or disparage their deeds, I take offense. Similarly, when customs and traditions stemming from that history are summarily dismissed under the banner of diversity, it strikes a deep nerve. All peoples should be able to enjoy the Christmas season without sacrificing their own identity. This requires no more effort than what my children might have to exert during Black History Month.

 

Of course, the said rant and the comments of others in this thread eventually leads to another discussion one thats been beaten to death here and elsewhere. Where to draw the line between state and church? For me, the recognition of a particular faith and/or the customs and traditions stemming from the same, does not constitute the establishment of a state religion. Nor is an acknowledgement of God As in God we trust, the establishment of a state religion. They are simply acknowledgments. For over 200 years, since the Constitution was written, the U.S. government has recognized the existence of God? It is not a religion. No one is being forced to follow the precepts of a particular faith. Even if the U.S. government recognizes the tradition of Christmas, no religion is being established. The government is merely paying homage to the customs and traditions practiced by the vast majority of its citizens. That respect, shown by the government, does not negate anyones ability to practice a different religion.

 

While Merlyn likes to speak of atheism as if its a religion, most know better. And even if by contemporary standards one can make an argument that atheism is a religion, its abundantly clear what the founding fathers intended i.e. that there should be no mandate by the government for its citizens to follow a particular faith. Our government has ardently been true to that mandate. Sadly, the movement in the last 30 years or so has been for the government to erase all acknowledgements of faith and God from public view.

 

[scoutingagain]

Rooster,

 

I agree with much of what you said. There's certainly nothing wrong with being proud to be American or to be proud of one's faith or pride in our Nation's history. I feel pride in all those things. I choose not to express my pride in my country, faith or history in the manner the author did.

 

 

 

SA

 

 

[SemperParatus]

As we gather around the Festivus Pole, let us not forget that no celebration is complete without the Airing of Grievances, followed by the Feats of Strength...

 

Give to The Human Fund.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Rooster7 lies:

While Merlyn likes to speak of atheism as if its a religion, most know better.

 

Rooster7, stop lying about my views, OK? I thought your religion prohibited that sort of thing, but apparently you pick & choose what parts you follow and what parts you ignore.

 

I have stated in this very forum before:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=53830&p=3

 

 

Torveaux writes:

So Merlyn,

 

If atheism is a religion (as you seem to be saying) then by removing other religions from government is exactly what you claim to be fighting against! What you are advocating is tantamount to government endorsement of the religion of atheism.

 

Nope.

 

First of all, I DON'T say atheism is a religion; in fact, I say that atheism is NOT a religion, just as theism is not a religion. Most religions have some kind of theism as a tenet of that religion, and there are a few religions, like the Raelians, that have atheism as a tenet of that religion, but atheism (and theism) per se are not religions.

 

 

It's true that under some circumstances atheism needs to be treated as if it's a religion in a legal sense (just as corporations are sometimes, legally, considered persons even though they are not). This does not make atheism a religion any more than it makes theism a religion.

 

Sadly, the movement in the last 30 years or so has been for the government to erase all acknowledgements of faith and God from public view.

 

Not at all; only government-endorsement of religion.

 

For example, churches are in the public view, and can erect all the 10 commandments monuments, creches, etc. that they like on the church's property. When a church gives a 10 commandments monument to the city so the city will put it up on city property, that's government endorsement.

 

If the city creates a public forum that allows a church to put up the 10 commandments, other groups must be given the same access, so atheists could put up signs that say "gods are myths".

 

That's what equality looks like.

[packsaddle]

I think technically, that would be 'equal opportunity' or 'equal access'. But I would hardly equate posting a religious document with posting a document declaring gods to be myth.

 

Scoutingagain, I spent Christmas a few years ago in Lucenec, Slovakia. Delightful experience, great food, and even a decent ski slope in the nearby mountains (leftover thankfully from the days of the Communist upper crust, I think) with really butt-kicking pommel lifts. Nearly stranded in a bad blizzard and eventually made it to Budapest for the duration. Wow, now THAT is a great place to be stranded! Oh, is this off topic? Sorry.

[Kahuna]

I have nothing against immigrants, people speaking foreign languages (although it's very rude to speak foreign languages among ourselves when we know there are people who don't understand what we are saying in offices and close spaces like elevators) or people of other religions. I am a member of a non-Christian religious minority myself. I do find that multi-culturalism and "diversity" (nothing wrong with diversity itself, it's just the idea that we can't function without a representation of everything in all activities) are divisive in this day of constant victimhood that our nation is engaged in. I think along with the isolation (cocooning) in which people seal themselves in their air-conditioned, heated homes nowadays that we are becoming more factionalized.

[scoutingagain]

"although it's very rude to speak foreign languages among ourselves when we know there are people who don't understand what we are saying in offices and close spaces like elevators"

 

So how many Americans does anyone know, that when travelling in a non-English speaking country, speak in the host country's language for the benefit of those that don't speak English?

 

SA

[Kahuna]

So how many Americans does anyone know, that when travelling in a non-English speaking country, speak in the host country's language for the benefit of those that don't speak English?

 

It's not the same thing at all. We have many Japanese, Germans and other tourists here and in Florida that obviously don't speak English comfortably. While it's true that more foreigners speak English than Americans speak other languages, you can tell the difference between foreign tourists and people who live here who just choose to speak Spanish or some other language among themselves. It is rude and that's all it is. If I travel in a foreign country I try to learn enough of their language to get around, but have no hesitation in speaking English when it's available. If I moved to a foreign country, I would learn to speak their language and would not speak English in my office or other peoples homes unless everyone was English speaking.

[VentureScoutNY]

Thanks for sharing hops, my thoughts exactly.

[BrentAllen]

Who are these people the author is complaining about?

They are the far lefties, the ones in California who complained about the Fire Departments flying the US flag from their fire trucks after 9/11, forcing the fire departments to remove them.

They are the liberals who complained about seeing so many flags - on cars, on homes, everywhere after 9/11 - and claimed we were being jingoistic, instead of patriotic.

They are the liberals who demonize Christopher Columbus, accusing him of genocide, and want to force the US Government to stop recognizing Columbus Day as a holiday.

They are the liberals who boo'd the Boy Scout Color Guard at the Democratic National Convention when Clinton was president.

They are the liberals who complain that teachers have a picture of President Bush on the walls of their classroom (but never complained when a picture of Clinton was in the same spot).

I could go on and on. Check out http://www.tonguetied.us/ if you want to have your head explode.

 

[Eamonn]

Yipes!!

I talk with an accent!! Or do Americans speak English with an American accent?

I kinda like the idea that good old Saint Brendan the Navigator beat Chris Columbus to the new land. But then again there could be a few Vikings who might see things differently.

While I'm not going to comment on what has been said, I do admit that I get a lot of these sort of E-mails, some come with photos of American Troops in Iraq - Never seen one with any of the other troops over there? After a while they just become junk mail or spam and I delete them. One guy was sending me a ton of them so I added him to my blocked sender list.

The ones that really upset me are the ones that come with statements like "Don't Dare Break This" or make threats saying if you don't pass it on to X number of people something terrible is going to happen. Still my hair is already white and getting thin on top, Her Who Must Be Obeyed is stuck with me and most of my money is in FDIC accounts so I'll risk deleting them - Yes I'll show'em

Eamonn.

[Hunt]

I will support the deportation of the "far lefties," but only if the "far righties" are also shipped out. They can even go to the same place, which will give them all something to do.

 

(I have decided to become a moderate curmudgeon.)

[Kahuna]

I talk with an accent!! Or do Americans speak English with an American accent?

 

I don't know, but if I spend a few weeks in the U.K., I come home talking like a Brit. F'rinstance, I can only say the British "halph" for "half" instead of our "haff." It's a very easy accent to pick up. I could never convince people in the U.K. that I sounded much like one of them, though.

 

Anyway, you guys are not suspect, 'cause we can understand most of what you say.

[scoutingagain]

While working in the UK several years ago, I was able to easily understand the natives and had occaision to visit some of our facilities in Holland and found the Dutch speak a very acceptable form of American like English. However, I had some difficulty understanding the Scots. If they're speaking English it's not any form of English I'm used to. The Scots I ran into though we're by and large friendlier and more outgoing than their Engish counterparts.

 

The only other so called English speaking folks I've had difficulty understanding is on a project outside Baton Rouge, LA which from a cultural perspective was far more different from New England than London was.

 

Since I grew up in New Jersey, I don't have an accent and can understand every word in a Bruce Springsteen song.

 

SA