Unclean Leader

[OldGreyEagle]

I don't think you couldnt eat french cuisine, you just showed your patriotism if you termed them Freedom fries and Freedom toast...

 

I got a couple of French Military rifles, vintage WWII at a local gun show, they were billed as being in nearly new condition, never fired, dropped only once

[packsaddle]

Heh, heh, that was also good. I defend the French in spite of what seems a contrary nature. Actually that might be their most endearing characteristic. But without the French, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. This link is to a good book:

http://www.patriotresource.com/resources/history/books/schiff.html

in which Franklin is said to have essentially saved the Revolution by engaging lots of aid from France. Most (up to 90%) of the gunpowder used by the colonies came from France, for example, as did plenty of monetary aid. This, on the other hand, could also be seen as another monumental French blunder...perhaps subsequently inspiring the spirit of revolution in their own country. Another one of those delicious ironies....

[Fuzzy Bear]

The French are multidimensional and have inspired more than revolution, the guillotine and magic lines. When we think of romance, writing, cooking, defense of the underdog, and free speech, it is the French that comes to mind.

[lasteagle83]

Um, boys, I hate to disrupt your attack on the French, but I believe you were all busy offending the ladies on this forum with your many euphemisms regarding breasts; offending any Scouter of size by calling them fat and slovenly as well as smelly; and pretty much lowering yourselves to the kind of commentary you wouldn't allow your Scouts to make around large people or women in public.

 

By the way, a 52 inch waist will not fit anywhere near a 38 inch belt. Take your 38 and put it in a 24 and you'll see my point.

 

This SCOUTER that was mentioned has a problem - one that is affecting her abilities to get along with other SCOUTERS - perhaps some of you hypocritical bigots out there in the crowd haven't had the misfortune of being around a big fat smelly person that was a good Scouter, but who needed some help on personal issues. Or perhaps you have, and just chose to sink to the level you've chosen here, and lost a good Scouter to your ignorance.

 

Perhaps if you weren't so busy sneaking off to have a cigarette away from your Scouts, or searching the Perverts Thesaurus for new ways to say "booby" you might just take a little more time to add a REALISTIC answer to the conversation, rather than just bash a SCOUTER.

 

Right now I'm ashamed to be on the forum with some of you, and I doubt I'm alone on that.

[dsteele]

To me, there is only one important standard for the leaders of Scouts.

 

Do they show Scout Spirit?

 

Unc.

[FScouter]

lasteagle83 - Thanks for that wake-up, and I'll take back my comment about a fat, slovenly, smelly woman not being appropriate for a Cub leader. Fat is irrelevant. Cleanliness in body and dress is something we all have control over regardless of body characteristics.

[Diver66]

Poster's,

 

Thank you for all of the replies. Some are good ideas and some off topic, but all have merit in their own way. If this thread offended anyone I am sorry, that was not the intention of this question. I also did not give all of the information as to what kind of Scouter this lady is. In short she is not what the Scout's symbolize and , in my opion and others, what the definition of a Scout leader needs to be.

 

I have taken in consideration of this forum and others of Scouter's in my district and council the following stance:

 

I am going to recommend that we do not recharter her as a leader for reason of Youth Protection. I was told by a lawyer that her apperance could be construed as exposure which could lead to a law suit. I was told that though I could probably win the suit, the resulting media exposure would do the real damage to the unit. As we are tied to a Church that we could also loose our charter.

 

In my opion this is a sad situation that we have to look at the legal aspects of a frivolous law suit to run a unit. I wish that this was not the case, but in today's society this is the norm not the exception.

 

Again thank you all for your input. It has giving me alot to think about.

 

Barry

 

 

 

[Hunt]

I think you'd better get a second legal opinion before you drop her on those grounds--she might sue you for slander. (I'm assuming that the only "exposure" is a clothed but braless bust.)

 

If you really don't think she's a good example for the youth, that's the reason for dropping her.

[packsaddle]

Hunt, I agree. If THAT is the decision, I think there exists a serious self-deception and betrayal of the spirit.

 

Edited part: I'm curious, who was attacking the French?

FuzzyBear, when I look at at least part of that list I think Italian as well as French. Especially the food part, and you left out science.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[FScouter]

"I was told by a lawyer that her apperance could be construed as exposure which could lead to a law suit."

"I think you'd better get a second legal opinion before you drop her on those grounds--she might sue you for slander."

 

Forget legal opinons. You don't need any defensible grounds to replace a leader. The CO can replace leaders at will. You want the BEST possible leaders. Select a replacement, this woman will just be 2nd best. The only explanation you need to offer anyone is that the CO and committee feels the new leader is a better fit for the position.

[Rooster7]

I agree with FScouter. So long as your opinions (right or wrong) remain private, no one can accuse you of slander. Just replace her. You have no legal obligation to give justification.

 

Just to be argumentative - not that its part of my nature ;-) ...the fact that she wears clothes, does not mean she is dressed appropriately. There are other things to consider, such as the size of the shirt or blouse vice the size of the women, the type of material, how it is cut, whether or not she make use of buttons, and so on. Laugh if you will, but I had control of those variables as a 16 year old, I'm certain that the women around me would not be lacking in allure.

 

Bottom line - women are free to do as they please, just like men. But ones choices have consequences. If she wants to send out signals to every male around her, then thats her prerogative. However, it is also the prerogative of a childrens organization to reject that kind of behavior.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[Trevorum]

You know what? I dont disagree with anything Rooster has just said.

 

What is very interesting to me however, is that in re-reading the original post and replies thereto, its clear to me that we had very different mental pictures of this woman leader. My mental picture was that of a sloppy, "earth-mother" type in a loose fitting blouse, who badly needs some deodorant. In contrast, Roosters mental picture was perhaps more of a well-endowed, alluring woman who was sending out signals to youth and adults alike. Lacking more information, only Diver can say which of us is further from the truth. Maybe its me, maybe its not. In any event, a tempest in a teakettle. I wish you well, Diver, with whatever course of action you select.

[lasteagle83]

FScouter; thanks for the take-back. "Fat" and "smelly-slovenly" are not interchangeable terms. Anyone of any size can stink and look disheveled in their appearance. As a person of size myself, I constantly fight the stereotypes.

 

I will add, though, that if this lady is a person of size, she may have medical issues that prevent wearing certain undergarments (due to potential blood circulation problems arising), or perhaps they're simply not available in proper sizing. The ladies out there can probably confirm that latter statement for me. The issue body odor may also be due to medical conditions. I say know her situation before you judge it.

 

Diver66: No need to apologize for anything you've done starting this thread. You'll soon find these threads take on their own lives and directions - sometimes even WITH all the information!! :-)

 

You've now given us additional information, though, that makes me possibly agree with you; that is, that this lady is not acting Scoutlike. That alone should lead your actions, regardless of appearance or other issues. I would suggest, though, that just as if you'd give a Cub a chance to "make good" and be a good member of your Pack, you allow this leader the same opportunity. She may be clueless as to the ideals of the organization; she may simply be thinking that it's little more than an after-school club. She may very well be ignorant of the process - and may respond brilliantly with proper coaching. The appearance issues may resolve themselves, too, given the right coaching. Without knowing the full circumstances, perhaps you've already done that, and this is the end of the road for her -- so be it. But give it some thought....

 

[packsaddle]

I think Trevorum has a point. And I too, can't disagree with Rooster this time.

Question for Diver66...Is this individual the mother of one of the boys? I think the assumption is being made that she is but you haven't said so. It will have some bearing on the eventual outcome.

[Diver66]

She is not an alluring woman. She is the parent of a Cub. After rethinking my position and talking with one of my other leaders, finding out that this issue was addressed with a previous Cubmaster and another unit she came from, we are going to replace her. If she pushes the issue we are going with her failure to help the den leader, He was late one night I told her to keep the den busy until the DL arrived I went into the room and the kids were running around beining boys and she was just sitting there when approach she just looked at me with the "deer in the headlite" expression. She does not attend any rountables, powwow, or any other leader training. She has attended Basic Training and that is all. I feel that the only reason she became a leader is to make sure her oldest son got his Arrow of Light, which I felt he did not diserve, but was not my call at the time. She did try to turn in alot of awards for her oldest son right before he was bridging. 15 beltloops & 5 activity pins in one month. Told her to turn in paperwork on what he has complete and a year later no paperwork. She is trying to do the same thing with son now that is a Wolf, she is not the DL with this boy. We have handled this by not letting a parent that is a DL confeer a rank advancement. All leaders have agreed to this, when she was informed of this committee new procedure she was visable upset and started challenging who was doing the other leaders boys.

This is just a sample of what she has done in the unit. She has been with the unit for 3 years, so she knows the procedure and always blame other people for all that is wrong in her life. Husband around but just like her.