Unclean Leader

[Diver66]

I am a male Cubmaster and have an issue with a female ADL. She is a large woman that does not bath or wear a bra. She is well endowed. I have had concerns raised about this from another DL and he feels as I do that something needs to be done about this issue. I am just not shure how to approach the situation to keep bad feeling to a min. Any help would be appriciated.

Thanks

[ScoutNut]

Talk to her Den Leader. The Den Leader is in a better situation to talk to her & probably knows her better.

 

Maybe they could work on hygeine as a part on their den meeting.

[packsaddle]

Here's an idea. Start taking photographs, lots of them. Take them from angles that accentuate the problem ;). Then put them in a collage with other photos for a display of some kind and ask her for her critical eye and her opinion on the collection. Perhaps there is a sense of vanity in there somewhere that will cause some reflection.

 

Here's the downside, you may get some requests from others.....ahem....to see them as well. Not that I would, no siree!

[Trevorum]

Diver, welcome to the forum!

 

As CM, you have an issue, but I'm not sure this is a scouting issue; you might get better advice from Dear Abby or someone like that. Have you asked your spouse for her perspective?

 

That said, my opinion is that the issue may be more the lack of bathing (this is a medical problem for some) and associated odor than her choice in undergarments or lack thereof. After all, that IS her personal choice. If she keeps the uniform buttoned. In any event, I suspect that the solution may involve another woman in the pack - and not a man - speaking to her.

[Fuzzy Bear]

We had a Den Leader that looked very fashionable in her uniform but her patches were not according to proper uniform regulations and she couldn't get all of her buttons fastened. On several occasions, it was discussed that training would be a possibility to correct the situation. This might be a consideration in your case as well.

 

FB

 

 

[packsaddle]

Fuzzy Bear, I'm not quite clear on this. Are you saying that someone complained?

[SemperParatus]

If I were in your shoes Diver, I would just let it go. The chances are very good that she has been given 'advice' before, but to no avail. Focus on your program and the boys.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[Rooster7]

If the facts as I understand them are true:

 

1) She is a well endowed woman.

2) She wears clothes which makes it obvious that she has no bra.

3) She attends the pack meetings.

 

Then unlike some, I agree that there is a problem. Pack meetings should be a place where the boys and their families can enjoy a wholesome atmosphere. Perhaps I am not as enlightened as some, but I definitely see her presence as previously described, to be a problem. No doubt, this is a sensitive issue and would need to be dealt with privately. I suggest that you find a friendly woman Scouter or parent who's willing to politely address this woman with your complaint (although it doesn't have to be presented as a complaint - maybe a "concern" would be better received). Regardless, in the end, I think you not only have the right, but an obligation, to put an end to that situation. Unfortunately, there doesnt appear to be an easy, non-confrontational solution to your problem. Good luck.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[Lynda J]

I agree with Rooster. If this woman is very well endowed and not wearing a bra and the boys are exposed to (excuse the expression) flopping boobs all over the place it is a pack issue and needs to be addressed. As far as the smell. There can be medical issues about body odor. Had a friend that could take two showers a day and use all kinds of deoderant and would smell. Finally went to doctor and found out he had an chemical emblance. With medication it helped the smell but never did totally stop it.

 

 

[acco40]

I attend a monthly Boy Scout roundtable and the vast majority of SMs and SAs who attend are large and it is apparent they do not wear a bra (embarassingly, this includes me!).

 

If she does not bath(sic) maybe she showers?

[packsaddle]

OK, time to take this seriously I guess. Go to many other places on earth and experience the people. You will find that what seems unusual or unorthodox here is commonplace elsewhere. I would do absolutely nothing. I would say absolutely nothing. It's really none of my business. If she chooses to dress in that manner, bathed or not, as long as it is a legal uniform, no problem. There is nothing I know of that addresses it in the regulations. But I admit...I haven't looked for it either.

[Hunt]

Maybe she doesn't want to mix non-uniform items with the uniform.

 

Seriously, I don't think there is much to be done, unless the uncleanliness is really egregious.

[Rooster7]

Aah, I see. The sophisticated Europeans and the rest of the world's elite have clearly demonstrated that America is nave and ignorant, for we stubbornly cling to Old World puritan ethics. We rudely force our outdated standards on others. I hang my head in shame. Surely, most parents would love nothing more than to "expose" their children to the finer things in life, which no doubt includes this delightful woman's breasts. So please forgive me and my ilk. I am, forever, a neophyte.

 

As such, I advise that you tell the lady to act like one and to keep those puppies under wraps. But that's just me. I like to think that the world (or at least our part of it) still has some standards which don't have to be backed by laws.

 

[Hunt]

Addressing only the no-bra part of this issue, here's a serious answer: this is an issue that is really outside of BSA rules and procedures, and thus is a question for the Charter Organization. Talk to the Chartered Organziation Representative, and ask if this mode of dress comports with the CO's standards. If it doesn't, then there is a simple way to explain the issue to the lady. If the CO doesn't object, then that's really the end of it. The unit belongs to the CO.

[Rooster7]

Hunt,

 

I vehemently disagree.

 

Is this what we want to teach our boys? If the current powers-to-be have no problem with it, then shut up and get out of the way. Keep those pretentious ideas about morality to yourself. Simply pass the buck up the line. If the next guy up agrees, then youre merely the messenger and you dont have to defend your ideas. If he doesnt agree, then you can wash your hands of the whole ordeal and turn the other way.

 

In Scouting, were supposed to be developing character in these boys. I'm not willing to teach: Disregard what youve been taught about right and wrong, consult the next guy up the food chain and follow his lead. It's not a noble path.

 

If the CO approved the Cubmaster when he was originally selected, then I think the CM already has their confidence to resolve these matters. If he should discover otherwise, so be it. But I dont think the CM has to run to the COR every time he/she encounters a situation. And even if the COR disagrees, I don't see the matter ending there. I see it ending with my resignation or somewhere else. We owe it to our children to fight for what we believe is right.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)