Native American Indian Stereotypes

[Miki101]

Greetings Akaluga,

 

Have you read Charles Eastman's (Ohiyesa) BOY SCOUT TALKS book?

 

The note that the link that Scoutndad cites contains a reference to that book, which was written 2 years prior to the formation of the OA, which was inspired by Eastman's dear friend, Ernest Thompson Seton. If you know anything about Seton, then you know that he lived his life with the values of the American Indian and believed himself to have been born into the wrong race.

 

As for Eastmans book, it is dedicated to both the BSA and the Camp Fire Girls, and was written as a guide for them to successfully venture into the wilderness in pursuit of wisdom, health, and pleasure... (p. 1)

 

In the book, he makes the point that the ideal Boy Scout is the American Indian rather than the frontiersman. Let us have more of this spirit of the American Indian, the Boy Scouts prototype, he writes. To leaven the brilliant selflessness of our modern civilization. (p. 190) At that time, the BSA clearly resembled the English program designed by Baden-Powell, which was more or less, based upon the backwoodsman. At this time, Seton was on his way out of the BSA and James West was taking full advantage of it by keeping any of Setons American Indian trappings from the program. However, Setons influence was too great because co-OA founder, Carroll A. Edson, was inspired by a Seton lecture to use Indian lore as a basis for his new Honor Camper Program in 1915.

 

You state, A naming ceremony is very sacred, and the sacred ceremony is rarely performed for non-Indians. It is certainly NOT performed for entertainment. It certainly should NOT be performed by the Boy Scouts. It trivializes and mocks the various American Indian cultures."

 

Yet Eastman writes, Here are some honor names for Boy Scouts, (p. 118), which includes some 40 examples. He also writes a chapter called Indian Ceremonies for Boy Scouts, (pp. 137 45).

 

This book is clearly a primer to the average Boy Scout to re-enforce the importance of traditional American Indian values. If an OA lodges ceremony team is sub-par, then you should set out to correct it. But that does not mean that the program itself is evil or should be eliminated because of Political Correctness concerns.

 

You should also give a heavy study to the formation of he Camp Fire Girls, again with a heavy Seton influence, and a thorough study of Seton, too. As for Eastmans book, you really should give it a read before moving forward with your research.

 

Should you need further sources for the above studies, then let me know and I will provide them.

 

David C. Scott

 

 

 

 

[Akaluga]

David,

Thanks for the info. I didn't make any of the remarks in the quotes I used, I just supplied them to spark some of this conversation. I personally believe that American Indian Lore definately has a place in scouting, I just want to make sure that the boys in our OA lodge do it properly. In fact, I just joined the American Indian Scouting Association, which has an annual meeting between both boy scouts and girl scouts each year, that is hosted by one of the various native nations. Next year the host will be the Comanche Nation.

 

Thanks again for all the posts.

[Miki101]

My apoligies for the mis-read and improper quote attribution.

 

Please continue your quest to improve your OA lodge and get them to the point where they will represent the ideals that they should have from your very important perspective.

 

YIS

 

[CubsRgr8]

Old Grey Eagle asks the question:

 

I didnt think Boy Scouts, and by that I mean OA, did face painting anymore, Arrowmen, what say ye?

 

I just completed my ordeal this past weekend. I would have cringed if I observed what Akaluga reports. I am happy to say my experience was very different. There was no use of face-painting, no eagle feathers, no war bonnets, no loin-cloths over (or not) boxer shorts. I found the symbolism in the ceremonies to be both respectful of its cultural origins and appropriate to the purpose at hand.

 

 

[Vicki]

Well, I, too, just completed my Ordeal (with my son, who also got called out at camp) - the pre-Ordeal and Ordeal ceremonies all included face-paint, loin-cloths with leggings (no boxers in sight) and, in general, beautiful regalia which made every effort to be authentic along with wonderful drum work. Both ceremonial teams did a great job.

 

Question - I thought that OA was based on the Lenni Lenape (Delaware) tradition? That Vigil names are from that language? I gather the interest has expanded based on the geographical location of the OA lodge?

 

Also, having spent time in South and Central America - they cringe when we call ourselves "Americans" as if we have an exclusive right to it (as you do in one of your questions, Akaluga). Once you start down the PC road...

 

Vicki

[emb021]

"Well, I, too, just completed my Ordeal (with my son, who also got called out at camp) - the pre-Ordeal and Ordeal ceremonies all included face-paint, loin-cloths with leggings (no boxers in sight) and, in general, beautiful regalia which made every effort to be authentic along with wonderful drum work. Both ceremonial teams did a great job. "

 

OA National made a policy change several years ago forbidding the use of face-paint and wigs in OA ceremonies and dance team performances. You will not see this at NOAC (nor should you at Sectional events)

 

"Question - I thought that OA was based on the Lenni Lenape (Delaware) tradition? That Vigil names are from that language? I gather the interest has expanded based on the geographical location of the OA lodge? "

 

The OA was based on Delaware tradition, as that was the local tribe for the original lodge. A Lenni Lenape dictionary is given in the OA Handbook and many Lodges use it to get Vigil names (but its not required).

 

However, the OA encourages that Lodge adopt the traditional and culture of their local tribes. You don't want OA Lodge around the country wearing generic plains indians stuff. Thus, most Lodges spend a lot of time and effort creating ceremonial outfits based on local tribal clothing AND using local languages for Vigil names. My home lodge has for years used the Seminole language for Vigil names. Other lodges do the same.

 

"Also, having spent time in South and Central America - they cringe when we call ourselves "Americans" as if we have an exclusive right to it (as you do in one of your questions, Akaluga). Once you start down the PC road... "

 

Too bad. "America" is part of the name of our country, thus, we are Americans. They need to get over that. USAians just doesn't work. "Yankee" doesn't work because *I'm* from the South.

 

 

[Vicki]

>Too bad. "America" is part of the name of our country, thus, we are Americans. They need to get over that. >

 

Lots of people need to get over lots of things. A point that's been made already in this thread and kind of what I was getting at. But if we wanted to play nice (which we mostly don't) we'd try to say North Americans, since we are neither Central nor South Americans. And Canadians are happy with being Canadian.

 

Vicki

[purcelce]

"Question - I thought that OA was based on the Lenni Lenape (Delaware) tradition? That Vigil names are from that language? I gather the interest has expanded based on the geographical location of the OA lodge? "

 

Most Vigil names come from Lenni Lanape. Howerver mine is Chinook Jargon.

 

 

 

 

[SWScouter]

Akaluga,

 

I'm a member of the Wipala Wiki lodge of the Grand Canyon Council, AZ.

 

The namesake of the lodge, Wipala Wiki, was a Hopi indian, who I believe, was a chief of his clan by birthright. Wipala Wiki was still alive when the lodge was named and was even the ceremonies advisor for the lodge. For a time, he was also the ranger for the Heard Scout Pueblo at S. Mt. in Phoenix, AZ. A brief history of the Heard and Wipala Wiki can be seen in the April and May Tom Tom's. Some more on Wipala Wiki is in the August Tom Tom. The Tom Tom is the lodge newsletter.

 

http://www.wipalawiki.org/lodge/tom-tom/march2005small.pdf

http://www.wipalawiki.org/lodge/tom-tom/april2005small.pdf

http://www.wipalawiki.org/lodge/tom-tom/august2005small.pdf

 

I hope you find this useful.

 

Regards,

SWScouter

[le Voyageur]

 

How the times have changed since the founding of the O.A. Over the years, we've rid our culture of Little Black Sambo, and the Frito Bandito, but the trespasses on our culture continue.

 

However,I still think the Organization could be a very viable, and positive enity for the BSA which would serve to help educate non natives.

 

First, every lodge should have an ambassador that works directly with a local tribe.

 

Second, revamping the BSA's Lene Lanape mythology, and characters so that it is appropriate for the area.

 

Third, It's past time to move away from the Plains and Pan Indian motiff. Makes no sense for an East Coast Lodge to dress out as Lakotas when they should be identifying with Eastern Woodlands.

 

Fourth, changing the Indian Lore MB from a craft merit badge to one that requires an extenstive study of an area's local tribe. And, to move from Ordeal to Botherhood, it would be a required merit badge.

 

Library closing, I'll post more thoughts later....

 

 

[Vicki]

>Fourth, changing the Indian Lore MB from a craft merit badge to one that requires an extenstive study of an area's local tribe. And, to move from Ordeal to Botherhood, it would be a required merit badge.>

 

I LIKE this idea. The Indian Lore MB as it currently stands does seem a tad lightweight. Without delving too far off-topic though, we have a difficult time making that Ordeal to Brotherhood transition. I wonder how adding a requirement like this would impact that. Not that I object, I understand and appreciate the reasoning, just a thought.

 

Vicki

 

[le Voyageur]

As I recall, the time limit between Ordeal and Brotherhood is 10 months. More than enough time to complete a merit badge. As for impact, I think at first there will be some reluctance, but over the long run you would have a Lodge with very knowledgeable members.

 

 

[Greying Beaver]

The O.A. handbook has a section on ceremonies. Ceremony teams are encouraged to research the attire of the Native Americans who lived in the area and use that clothing as a guide for ceremony regalia. Our lodge's part of the swamp was ocupied by the Karakawa. They wore very little when the weather was cold and less when the weather was warm. So, . . . our chapters have found inspiration from the Cherokees at the time just after First Contact with the Europeans.

 

When Dr. Goodman and Mr. Edson were writing the ceremonies, they drew from what was familiar. Edson was a Mason. I have shown the ceremonies to a couple of Masons and asked if the O.A. ceremonies resemble Masonic ceremonies. All agreed without violating their oaths.

 

No Native American group has any ceremony even close to the ceremonies in the O.A., from Arrow of Light to Vigil. "Respectful Imitation" describes what the O.A. does in all of its ceremonies.

 

In my talking with Native Americans who are not aware of the O.A., they seem to think that a service organization based on a Delaware (Leni Lanapi) legend is great. The younger ones who are interested in keeping Native American cultures alive and glad for our interest in Native American clothing, singing, and drumming, and dancing. A drum is one thing; a plastic trash can is another. I must confess that I did use a plastic trash can when another ceremony team had borrowed ours and had not yet returned it. It made a very satisfying sound, deep and resonate. Better than our hide-over-wooden frame drum! I made quite a site thumping on the bottoms of plastic trash cans at the Wal-Mart. The drum is not seen, but it is heard in our ceremonies. Hey! "Git-R-Done", right?

 

My paternal ancestry is Scottish. Do I object to someone wearing a kilt? No, so long as they wear it properly. Even if they are wearing my clan's plaid and they cannot show or recall being descended from our clan. My take on all of this is a "P.C. Tempest In A Teapot" of our own invention.

[SoDakScouter]

First, I am not in OA, neither is my oldest son. I hope that he will receive that honor someday, but that will be up to his troop.

 

Most of the Indian Ceremonies I have participated in and observed have been in Cub Scouts, as a Cub Scout Leader for the last 9 years. My youngest is in Bears. (big transistion when you spend 6 months with Boy Scouts and then go back an take over Tigers!)

 

I am in Rapid City, South Dakota, gateway to the Black Hills of South Dakota. Anyone care to think of a more conterversial place when it comes to American Indian/U.S. Government?

 

All of the ceremonies that we use, show the journey from being a boy to young man to manhood. The members of our Pack that are also members of the various Lakota, Dakota & Nakota Nations participate in these ceremonies. I have asked them, in private to let me know if there is an offense, and they have all said that these are kids and the ceremonies are fun for them. The stories used are great stories to teach kids about some American Indian lore and some good morals. Some of them have made suggestions that made the story more fun for the kids. One of them has said that it is great to see an effort to expose kids to other cultures that are around them. Most American Indians object to people coming in and "being Indian" or "wannabees". I try very hard to use these ceremonies to teach kids about the trail of growing up. Today, we are competing with videos, video games, movies, television and the such that glorify killing, sex, drugs, defying authority, running from the police, mistreating women and a host of other things; these simple ceremonies help to show kids something they can identify with locally that stress good choices.

 

I guess if somebody wanted, they could come up with Norse lore that does the samething, or Scottish or Celtic or Gaelic. But American Indian Lore is local to us and is a part of many people in this area. People will always be offended with whatever you do. I think we do our best and if the PC police bust in, hopefully they have a warrant.

[Kudu]

Miki101 writes:

 

At this time, Seton was on his way out of the BSA and James West was taking full advantage of it by keeping any of Setons American Indian trappings from the program. However, Setons influence was too great because co-OA founder, Carroll A. Edson, was inspired by a Seton lecture to use Indian lore as a basis for his new Honor Camper Program in 1915.

 

You can see Seton's Woodcraft Indian ceremonies from which the non-Masonic aspects of the OA Ordeal and Vigil were taken, as well as the prototype OA sash and other elements at The Inquiry Net:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/index.htm

 

Seton's entire Birch Bark Roll of the Woodcraft League handbook is online there, plus much of his wife Julia Seton's The Rhythm of the Redman: In Song, Dance, and Decoration. If you need a dance or song from the book that is not there, let me know.

 

Additional Inquiry Net Native American resources include a Indian Sign Language dictionary, a book on making Totem Poles, and a number of Native American shelters by Dan Beard.

 

Kudu