Native American Indian Stereotypes

[Akaluga]

There is a great discussion forum on scouting's use/abuse of American Indian themes at

 

http://drumhop.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=BSA

 

I encourage anyone interested in this to read through all of the postings there. Most of the discussion revolves around the Order of the Arrow, and how the BSA inaccurately portrays Native Americans, furthering the image of the "Stereotypical Indian".

 

One argument in favor of the BSA using Native American themes is that one of BSA's founders, Ohiyesa (Charles Eastman), was a Santee Sioux that gave scouting much of it's early Indian traditions.

 

I am interested in other scouter's thoughts on this topic and what you feel we can do to mitigate this problem. I certainly don't condone "cultural piracy", but like many long time scouters would like to find a way to keep the use of American Indian traditions alive in the scouting organization without offending anyone. This goes far beyond not wearing cheap and inappropriate regalia, but involves a true understanding of the individual cultures that are portrayed. Any thoughts?

[Bob White]

The BSA works closely with representatives of the indian culture to keep the use of the indian lore and customs respectful and positive.

 

Throughout the decades the BSA has made many changes in its representation of Am. Indian heritage. There is no reason to think that this consideration and cooperation will not continue in the future.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[stlscouter]

The ceremonial teams in our district have been rather dilegent in researching and choosing appropriate regalia. "Pan-Indianism" is HIGHLY discouraged..Our teams advisor is an honorary Osage.

[Akaluga]

Makes it sound like there isn't a problem. Is it only sports teams using Indians as mascots that are a problem then? What about these quotes from the stereotype discussion board I mentioned previously?

 

"I have to agree on the fact that the way the Boy Scouts and the Boy Scout program portrays many native american customs, dress, dance regalia, and ceremonial dances is VERY Wrong. I am half Plains Cree from Rocky Boy Montana, and have been a singer and dancer for more than ten years. I was taught traditionally by my father and grandfather and many uncles over the years as to what the proper mannerisms and customs were pertaining to many native cultures and ceremonies, and i think that the Boy Scouts are indeed being taught to deface a culture by the actions that they take."

 

"I agree, there is no purpose - other than the subliminal message that it's okay to steal whatever we (mainstream society) like from the American Indian culture and make it our own. We've been doing this for hundreds of years. We (mainstream society) are hell-bent to finish the extermination policy (genocide) we began when we first arrived and lied to them about wanting to be their "friends. A naming ceremony is very sacred, and the sacred ceremony is rarely performed for non-Indians. It is certainly NOT performed for entertainment. It certainly should NOT be performed by the Boy Scouts. It trivializes and mocks the various American Indian cultures."

 

"From what I've seen and heard, I find the entire organization to be a mockery of something sacred and highly offensive. It begins with the history of the OA. It was based on fictional stories (Last of the Mohicans and Song of Hiawatha), and the sole purpose was to keep young boys interested in scouting -- to keep the numbers up for financial gain of the organization."

 

"Now i understand that the boyscouts were trying to "Honor"us? Well i still think that the boy scouts had no right or business doing what they did. I also understand that they did it out of pure ignorance. The problem also lies that these boyscouts were exposed to stereotypes. The scoutleader should ask a Native American (elder) for permission to perform these ceremonies."

 

Would it be OK for native American's to dress up as boy scouts?

 

[frank10]

I'm going to get flamed for this but I think it's time that Native Americans or American Indians or what ever they want to be called to get over them selves.

MAybe it's time they took at the Irish and learn from their example.

Never seen an Irishmen complain that your wearing the green wrong. I've never heard one complain if you call the police van a patty waggon.

 

[Torveaux]

I think the problem we run in to as does the sports teams issues, is that Native Americans are not some monolithic group that speak with one voice. Some appreciate the effort, albiet flawed at times, to honor their ancestors. Others see any use of Native images by non-Natives to be abusive. There will not be consensus, so we must agree to disagree and move on.

[Bob White]

Is it your opinion that the scouts are trying to dishonor the american indian? The indians who help the BSA do not think so.

 

If indians want to act and dress similar to scouts they can. I would hope that the positive values of scouting are shared by the elders of the Indian nations.

[Trevorum]

I agree with Torveaux. There will not be a consensus on this issue.

 

In my view, BSA adopted Native American costumes and began emulating ceremonies at a time when American society was not as sensitive to ethnic slurs as we are today. We were unintentionally racist. But the imitation was done, as still is, not with malice but out of respect for Native American society and beliefs.

 

What we can do is continue that tradition of respectful honoring our Native American heritage. I think the OA does a fairly good job of respectful imitation.

[mmhardy]

Here is Michigan we are reminded everyday of the heritage of the First Nation. The city of Pontiac is down the road. I'm in the Ojibwa district. My friends daughter goes to Central Michigan...go Chips! (Chippawa's)One of the state's finest hotel's is owned by the same tribe.

 

It has generated alot of interest and study by our youth. The annual powwow in Southfield is a three day event that is well attended by all Scouts.

 

The spiritual and religious aspects of many tribes of the First Nation is very worthly of serious study. I would hope that someday there is some kind of deeper acknowledgement of this aspect of their culture by Scouting.

[cubmaster3947]

Quoting from above "I have to agree on the fact that the way the Boy Scouts and the Boy Scout program portrays many native american customs, dress, dance regalia, and ceremonial dances is VERY Wrong. It trivializes and mocks the various American Indian cultures."

 

Are we doing it wrong? Probably. So let me offer a novel suggestion for today's overly-senstive, ultra-politically-correct world...instead of spending so much effort complaining about how we're doing it wrong & insulting others by doing so, how about redirecting that energy into TEACHING us to do it RIGHT?

 

Point is that I truly believe these ceremonies are INTENDED to honor, not to insult. Whatever happened to "it's the thought that counts"?

 

If folks are doing it wrong, I'm sure they'd appreciate your assistance in getting it right.

 

My $0.02...

mark

[LovetoCamp]

To me personally, I don't think this is a fight worth fighting or generating one press release of bad publicity. I'd be done with anything to do with Indian lore. Voyaguers, explorers, mountain men, and pioneers all camped. Maybe create a new organization with a Patriot theme, the Liberty Tree, Boston Tea Party, Paul Revere, etc.

 

Begin new with a different theme.

 

 

[Scoutndad]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery-or something to that affect. Great subject, but doubtful if there will be any conclusions. Take a look back at Ellis Island and the early immigration done in the US and you will undoubtedly find discrimination and hurtful phrases that people continue to use without understanding the roots and what these cultures and races endured on US soil. Unfortunately, the Native American population was subject to the same treatment, but at an earlier time. I'm not sure why we feel the need to be PC when just about every ethnicity, religion and culture has been subject to scrutiny, stereotypes and defammatory comments. As the author of the quote from the "stereo typed board" indicated, he is half Cree - you can't tell me his mother and fathers relationship was condoned within his tribe and if it was - why doesnt he mention what the other half was. We are an ethnically diluted nation of people with their own beliefs and mantras...we need to shed ourselves of these stigmas and continue to find ways to work at a harmonious relationship. BSA consulting with a Native American delegation IS the right thing to do...but banning the use of names because it is considered "disrespectful" without finding the reason for the name in the first place is just ignorant.

Here in Michigan, we have quite a few towns and cities with Native American names and derivatives...do we start changing those names next...or how about GM changing their car line name - Pontiac > How about the Hoosiers? or the Dakotas?

Stop...just stop!

[Akaluga]

To answer Bob White, no I do not think that scouts are trying to dishonor Native Americans, but I do think they may be doing unintentionally. wingnut said that it's time that American Indians get over it. The problem is that white America has taken absolutely everything from the Indian - their land, their freedoms, their religions, their languages, and today we are often using their culture without much regard for it. Do you realize that it wasn't until Jimmy Carter became president that Indians won back their right to speak in their own languages and practice their own religions?

 

Our local OA lodge is in fact "part of the problem". Last summer I attended a Pre-Ordeal ceremony at summer camp that almost made me want to cry. The boys were beating on a plastic trash can for a drum. They walked in barefoot, wearing loin clothes without boxers underneath. The war bonnets had multi-colored fluffs on the dyed imitation eagle feathers, and they stood there with their arms crossed. Rather than just critisize however, I decided to become part of the solution. As a result, I am now the ceremonies team advisor for our chapter. I am in the process of writing a 'How To' manual for our lodge. I am conducting interviews and inviting local elders to come speak to our scouts.

 

Cubmaster3947 asked about teaching us to do it right. I have taken this upon myself as a Wood Badge ticket item (which was part of the reason for starting this thread - to gather additional information and perspectives). I believe that there is a right way to do it, and it is not just to be politically correct. It's because it is the right thing to do. Please continue to post your thoughts as this is great background material for my research.

[Scoutndad]

Although you can't just "let go" of decades of oppression or repression...IMHO your efforts to educate is the best representation of what we can do to correct an inaccurate portrayal of ceremonies and heritage.

 

I think becoming PC has way too many drawbacks and Akaluga's namesake and methods to help us better understand this is the best way to approach how we portray Native Americans.

 

Good luck.

 

interesting forum name so I had to look it up and found this short description -http://cadvisor.com/akaluga/description.htm

 

[Bob White]

The BSA is evidently not the problem, it is the misuse of the BSa program by local members that is the problem. That extends far beyond the OA and the use of Am. Indian lore by scouting, that same problem can be said to cause all problems at the local level.

 

As you have correctly pointed out your problem is with your local folks. I do not believe you will find aything in the BSA program that supports their behavior.

 

As long as the ceremonies and sybolism used and supported by the BSA is done in a respectful manner to symbolize the strengths and honorable characteristics of the American Indian the there should be no cause for the "purists" to rant. Not that I believe they will stop.