Scouting, liability and being sued

[CNYScouter]

The topic of Scouting, liability and being sued has come up in topics of conversation lately.

 

Im trying to organize a Sea Scout Ship.

In talking with my DE, we discussed finding a CO. When I asked about an American Legion or VFW, he was reluctant to approach these organizations due to the liability involved with owning a boat and having teens around water and that would scare them off from being a CO. (We do have other options for a CO)

 

Ok. Now Ive organized a Ship (or another Scout unit) and own a house on a lake.

I allow the Unit to moor a boat (or use my boat) and use the property to have activities.

I know that the BSA has liability insurance but, how personally reasonable will I be if anyone gets hurt or killed during a Scout activity on my property even if I have followed the G2SS.

 

Also, the scouts that have been killed this year, were the leaders held liable?

Did the parents of the scouts sue any of these leaders for being negligent?

Has anyone ever heard of a Scout Leader being sued for a scout being injured or killed on an activity?

I have been told that adults have been asked to resign and step down when a Scout has gotten hurt but never that a leader has been sued over this.

 

My wife has been coming more concerned and is becoming reluctant to drive other scouts to activities in fear that if something happens we will be held personally responsible in this sue happy world.

She is also concerned when I go as an adult leader on trips that I will be held responsible and sued if anything goes wrong.

My DE assures me that I would be covered with all this, but even with the BSA insurance what is to stop someone from listing any adults who went on a trip (along with the BSA, Troop, CO and anyone else they want to add) from being listed as liable if anything went wrong on an activity?

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

THey will sue everyone. The judge will sort out the liability, but usually before it gets to that point, the insurance companies will settle. It's usually a lot cheaper than litigation. My financial planner just told me I need a MINIMUM of $2 million in an umbrella liability policy, in addition to homeowners and auto insurance.

[FScouter]

Anybody in the world can sue anybody else. If you get sued, your BSA liability insurance company will defend you. The best idea is to get trained and follow the Guide to Safe Scouting. That will greatly reduce the risk of an accident occurring in first place, plus it will make it easier for the insurance company to defend you. Even if you're found negligent, you have insurance. That's what it's for.

 

A Scout leader would not be removed or asked to resign solely because an accident occurred. But if the accident resulted because the leader intentionally violated G2SS rules or other BSA rules, removal might make sense. Still, you're covered by the insurance.

 

It is also recommended that the unit buy the supplemental accident insurance that covers doctor bills etc. It's cheap, about a buck and a half per head per year.

[Kahuna]

Sea Scouting is one of the BSA programs most fraught with liability issues. Still, I'm surprised your DE wouldn't have the answers for prospective COs. As long as the proper G2SS procedures are followed and those outlined in the Sea Scout Manual and other training material, liability shouldn't be a problem. All things considered, marinas and yacht clubs make better sponsors, since they are used to the safety and liability aspects. Owning boats is a scary proposition for many COs, but you can get around it by 1) creating your own non-profit 501©(3) corporation (which is what many successful SS units do); 2) Letting the Council own the boats. That's a decision the SE can make, if he is so inclined; or 3)not owning any boats. Probably less desirable, since the ability to accept donated boats and resell them is one of the best ways to make the kind of money you need to run a good SS unit.

 

If you use your own boat, be sure it meets all USCG recommended safety requirements and has a current CME inspection from the USCG or USPS.

 

As has been pointed out, BSA will take care of your legal defense issues as long as you have been following proper procedures. However, it never hurts for anyone in the BSA or not to have a multi-million dollar umbrella liability policy, which isn't all that expensive when added to your homeowners coverage.

[FScouter]

Insurance coverage is good even if rules have been violated. If you're sued, it's more likely the insurance company will have to pay, but the coverage is still there.

[packsaddle]

Reality. Scout on approved outing accidentally injures member of public. Accident, no malice. Serious injury, substantial medical bills. Lawsuit. BSA attorneys beat back the plaintiff for BSA and leaders. Plaintiff shifts attention, now going after boy's parents. No insurance, no protection. BSA response...good luck. The umbrella policy is worth it.

[ScoutNut]

You can be sued for any number of logical & illogical reasons.

 

Get into an accident driving anyone anywhere (not just scouts on an outing) & you could be sued by everyone involved & all of their relatives.

 

Be helping out at school & a child falls down & gets hurt. Every adult in the school at the time of the incident (& probably some who weren't) could be sued.

 

Walk down the street and bump into someone & you & your whole family could be sued.

 

Solution - Never go outdoors, never allow any family member to go outdoors, put a VERY high wall around your entire property line & never let anyone come near it.

 

Oh Heck, someone will probably bump into your wall & sue you anyway!

 

Reality - Get trained, follow the G2SS, follow all local & national laws, & FILL OUT YOUR TOUR PERMIT PROPERLY. If you do all of that & something still happens, BSA insurance will cover all involved & will back you up in any lawsuit.

 

Still not happy - Go for the never have anything to do with anyone approach above.

 

[Bob White]

Regardless who the charter organization is your liability protection is the same. The BSA protects registered adults as well as the COs regardless of who they are providing they follow the BSA regulations. A yacht club is not better protected than the VFW or any other CO.

 

 

 

Your DE needs to become better informed.

 

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

You know, I have the liability discussion every year with our CO. Every year their attorneys bring it up, and every year we trot out the DE to talk to them. Same people, same questions, every year. I think it's just the nature of our overly litiguous society to be worried about every possibility of liability.

 

If you follow BSA rules, BSA insurance should/will protect you. From a pragmatic standpoint, the people litigating would rather go after BSA because they have the "deeper pockets" unless a Scouter is really, really well off.

[madkins007]

My understanding is:

 

If/when you get sued-

1.) Your own insurance company is the first pocket.

2.) The BSA insurance kicks in secondly to cover you IF you followed the rules. It is, I have been told, a supplimental policy.

 

Our Scouter Services person tells the story of two groups of Scouts heading to Philmont in seperate years. Both are involved in a terrible collision.

 

One group is covered by the BSA since they completed a proper Tour Permit and it was documented that they followed the rules. The other, unfortunately, was not since they did not file a permit.

 

 

[Bob White]

Madkins is confusing elements of the accident insurance with the liability umbrella. BSA accident insurance is secondary, the liability umbrella is a primary protection.

 

They are two separate and unique policies.

[Eagledad]

>>You know, I have the liability discussion every year with our CO. ....I think it's just the nature of our overly litiguous society to be worried about every possibility of liability.

[Bob White]

One group is covered by the BSA since they completed a proper Tour Permit and it was documented that they followed the rules. The other, unfortunately, was not since they did not file a permit.

 

Which insurance???

 

Accident insurance is ALWAYS in effect. Scouts medical bills will always be covered regardless of what adults do wrong.

 

Liability protection for the registered leaders...well that's different.

 

[nldscout]

BSA insurance will cover you even if you are not so smart and don't file a tour permit. They have no bearing on insurance coverage in any shape or form.

 

Thats an OLD urban legand along with you must travel in uniform to get insurance coverage.

[Bob White]

nldscout,

Which insurance? Again, you cannot treat accident and liability the same.