Reasons for Declining Membership

[OldGreyEagle]

Ordep? You don't know Ordep? A gentle hint, who is the mail man for boys life? He answers to many names, "Hay Munching Dude' amoung them

 

Ordep is this guys name spelt backward

[OldGreyEagle]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[acco40]

I agree with BW that "boring meetings" are a big, if not the biggest reason. The real question is why are meetings boring?

 

Exciting meetings take effort! Who supplies the effort? Who SHOULD supply the effort? What I struggle with is how to get the boys to take ownership of THEIR meetings! I don't just leave them on their own. I've tried many things but too many boys seem to just want to come, sit idly by and wait to be "entertained." Boys in this day and age are used to having things - all things - arranged for them. This includes sports, clubs, even "play dates" arranged by parents for some! In my youth, we organized our own pick-up games, board games, clubs, and such. Now, boys will sit next to each other with ear buds, gameboys and have very little interaction with each other except for one word phrases - "sweet", "cool", etc.

 

So what do we do? We (adults) try and figure out what would be fun for them. Many times we hit the nail on the head and the boys have a great time but alas, THEY didn't plan it. The BSA program is not for them to be entertained!

 

At our last PLC meeting, the week before a backpacking outing - the boys suggested that all those participating bring in their fully loaded backpacks and show the others what they were bringing. I asked them if they thought that would be a "fun" meeting. They just shrugged and said, "Yea." I suggested possibly having one boy from each patrol show what he packed and the rest of the troop could critique what he brought - was it necessary, did he forget something, etc. Again, they just shrugged. I asked how to communicate to the boys that they were requesting them to bring in their backpacks. They stated that they would call their patrol mates. Well, a week later only two boys bring in their backpacks and the boys really didn't pay much attention. I don't give up but the fine line between doing it for them and trying to get them to do it themselves is a delicate one.

[Trevorum]

Bob has a good point. If we are interested in discovering why boys leave the program, we need to talk to them and their parents. I hope we all try to do this.

 

However, the larger issue is why many, many boys aren't interested in joining in the first place. Certainly, Scouting has always appealed to a minority of boys, for one reason or another. However, our 'market share' is much smaller now than in earlier decades.

 

Why is this? I don't think Scouting has changed all that much. Rather, I think society has changed. Society has become faster, jazzier, and more complicated. As a result, Scouting is increasingly percieved by todays youth as old fashioned and conservative. One result of this is that it becomes attractive to more conservative families. And this creates a positive feedback loop.

 

My understanding of early 20th C history suggests that originally, Scouting was percieved as a liberal social movement and was therefore somewhat 'dangerous'. No more.

 

Nevertheless, there will always be those boys who like camping and outdoors adventures. As long as BSA retains the outdoor method, we'll always have a steady supply of boys who like 'bugs, knives, and sharp sticks'. It's our job to have a good program ready for them.

[Bob White]

Why arent they joining. Two years ago at Philmont Training Center a BSA Director told us of a survey done of several hundred Scout-aged non-scout boys. They were given a survey of various activities and asked to select the ones they were most interested in trying or learning about. Hudreds chose things like rock climbing, canoeing, rafting, snow sports, shooting sports and other scout related activities.

 

Since they were not scouts but were interested in scout stuff the question was asked, What is the #1 you are not in Boy Scouts.

 

Anyone want to guess the #1 answer?

 

It wasn't parents, or policies, or peers, or available time, or sports, or schoolwork.

 

THE #1 ANSWER as to why they weren't scouts...

 

 

Because no one ever asked them to join.

 

 

 

Units that follow the scouting program do not have recruitment or retention problems. (Anchors and Sails!)

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

I got it now! Actually, Ordep isn't that bad. Garfield, now that's another story!

 

OK maybe that was a cheap shot. Sorry. I couldn't help myself. But why censor mine & let Bob's cheap shots go?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

So recruitment is off because we stopped asking boys to join. Well, maybe...

 

I think Trevorum has a big part of the answer. We had a BOR for a Life Scout last night, and one of the board members asked him why he thought boys didn't want to wear their uniforms to school. He said that others thought the Scouts were "goody-goody" and that this was uncool. When I asked my son why boys don't join, he said something similar--that it wasn't cool. I think the survey Bob cites is interesting--the activities Scouting does are viewed as cool, but Scouting itself isn't. I guess this is partly inevitable--indeed, I don't think many of us want Scoutng to just be the outdoor activities. I think the answer is probably to improve recruitment of Cub Scouts, where there coolness factor is less important, and to concentrate on retention for older scouts.

[Bob White]

First let me say that there were no cheap shots thrown by me. The fact is, and anyone who has been on this forum for ANY length of time kows it, that a number of posters have blamed all kinds of things for why scouts have quit the unit (some even in great numbers) yet NO ADULT LEADEER on this forum has ever said "they quit because we have boring meetings".

 

Why boys quit and why their leaders think they quit is not the same.

 

No cheap shots, thats's what has been posted. Non names were given, and to remove that fact simply because you do not enjoy the fact that that is what was posted is not right IMHO.

 

Second, It's not that recruitment is off because scouts aren't inviting friends, its that recruitment could be improved if more boys were invited.

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, actually just a few posts up the thread here I did say that one of the Scouts who quit our troop said their reason for leaving was because our meetings are boring.

 

We make a point of sitting down with every Scout that wants to leave to find out what they're thinking. We've done that since Cub Scouts, and that's, what, about 8 or 9 years now. Boys leave for a variety of reasons. I can't speak for all units everywhere, but our experience in our neck of the woods is that the boys leave because they have too many other things pulling at their time. So, if they leave because they prefer something else, it doesn't automatically follow that the unit is doing something wrong.

 

Point is, whether *I* think the meetings are boring is really irrelevent. What matters is if the boys think it's boring; it's their judgement that counts. We try to cover that at our PLCs. Granted, it's like a trip to the dentist, but we do what we can. We try to guide them to things that seem to be fun, but if they can explain why think something is "lame" then that's good enough for me.

 

And, I'd have to take issue with the idea that we're not asking boys to join. I'd agree that we may not be putting enough emphasis on current non-Scouts, but our prime audience for recruiting is the Web 1s and 2s. We visit 2 different packs every year, invite them to our open house and then invite them to one of our annual cabin camping outings in the fall. Then we follow up to see if they want to join. We also try to get a feel for why Scouts go to other units, to see if we're missing something. Other unit leaders in our area do the same thing, so there appears to be some sort of disconnect here.

 

I agree with Bob to some extent. How can a good number of boys not like shooting sports, climbing and stuff like that? There seems to be a difference between what Scouts ARE and what they DO, for some reason that I don't really fully understand, but our guys are the same way. They love our activities, but wouldn't be caught dead in their uniforms at school.

 

Personally, I think that blaming poor program implementation might be barking up the wrong tree in some cases, at least. The fact that a boy might not like the program doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with the program or the leader implementing it. It could just mean that that boy's interests are elsewhere. Maybe it's just our national pasttime of having to lay blame. So, I don't think that you can make a blanket statement that the meetings are boring. Some probably are, but I don't think that you can make a blanket assessment that practically all boys quit or don't join because the meetings are boring. If a troop has 30 scouts, and they lose 1 or 2 because they think the meetings are "boring", do you change your program? No, you talk to the rest of the Scouts, and if they like the program, you move on. If they think some activities aren't that much fun, you make some adjustments, understanding that not every activity is meant to be a party.

[Bob White]

if you are the problem do not expect a boy to tell you that when they stop coming.

[bbng]

I had an interesting discussion with my own son recently, not due to this thread, but I was surprised at his "take" on Scouting. He has not quit, nor is he interested in quitting. However, when I asked him if he was going to invite his best friend to come out to a troop camping trip or meeting (they've been trying to get together, but the troop is busy, and this seemed a win-win situation), he said he won't ask him because he knows he won't like Scouts. When I picked my jaw back up off the floor, I asked him if he would mind telling me his reason. He said his friend wouldn't want to wear a uniform and do all that memory work. I asked about the memory work, and he said the Scout Oath and Law, but also the first aid and knots and other things that need to be remembered. What suprised me is that he has done these things with relative ease, the troop is boy-led so the boys teach other boys, and there is weekly program that keeps skills fresh through games and contests and things he has called fun. So, I asked him if he was unhappy with Scouting. His answer was that no, he loves the troop, thinks the leaders and other Scouts and troop meetings are fun, that the camping trips are the best, but that the uniform and the BORs would keep him from asking a friend out. I asked about the SM conference and was pleased to hear he liked that. In fact, it is one of things he likes best--right up there with camping. He knows plenty of boys he could invite to the troop, but he won't do it. Is his attitude wrong? Quite frankly, I think it is in part, but I also learn from his approach, for I don't mind the uniform or the so-called memory work, but I am an adult and need to know what appeals to the Scouts. Oh, and for the record, he does wear his uniform; his troop all wear the uniform. However, he doesn't like to. He does it because he wants to stay in the troop and he realizes that this is part of it. Anyway, for what it's worth, I thought I'd toss a log on the fire and share how one boy who loves Scouts and his troop isn't wild about certain elements, and that will have a part in whether he recruits or not.

[madkins007]

Scouting isn't cool? That's news? Scouting was not seen as 'cool' back in my day in the early 70's. That is not a sufficient reason for the current possible decline.

 

Overprogrammed youth? If they can hit soccer 3 times a week, they can make our meetings and activities on a far less hectic schedule. If we are a priority, they will come.

 

ACLU? They may not be our favorite organization but the group has done a lot of good things for a lot of people.

 

Scandals, gays, and god? I think this affects a certain part of our potential base, but there have always been aspects of the BSA that bothered some people. In the early days it was the strong para-militaristic bent.

 

 

 

 

Boring meetings, cookie cutter campouts, weak program, etc.? I think this is 80-90% of our failure to retain boys. We loose a lot of them at age 12 (failed to keep their interest), and at 14-15 ("been there, done that"). Bored kids DO NOT share their enthusiasm for Scouting with others.

 

 

Recruitment failures? I think that is a big issue. Troops are so used to recruiting Webelos that they seem to have lost the ability to recruit otherwise. Even packs don't do real well other than recruiting new Tigers. Yeah, we have the 'Recruiter Strip' but I really think we need to be a bit more aggressive on all levels- and not just with sending stuff home at school.

 

 

 

I think one other issue is public awareness. The average person rarely sees a real Scout- in real life, on TV, etc. We USED to be pretty conspicuous in society- that is where all the big 'helpful Scout' stereotypes came from in the first place- the old days with solid khaki uniforms and campaign hats. From back when we advertised in major magazines, sold uniforms and books at many local stores, could be shown on TV in a rather realistic way and did indeed often show up in storylines.

 

Our old public visibility created an interest in families enough to make them seek us out to join. When was the last time any of us had that happen?

 

The negative news coverage impinges on this some, as does all of the rather silly or slightly negative use of BSA imagery in commercials and TV today, but mostly it just feels like the BSA has somehow withdrawn from the public eye over the last couple decades.

 

Locally, for example, we have stopped any Scout shows or fairs for the public over a decade ago. We do not do camporees in public parks. We do parades on a real hit or miss basis. In our biggish town, only one store besides the Scout Shop carries BSA stuff- and our council won't even let them have CSPs! (And it only took a chat with a couple people shpping for uniforms the other night at the other store to see how popular THAT idea was! The Scout Shop has no evening and only short Saturday hours- not real convenient for most people. There is more but that is increasingly off-topic!)

 

Even looking for them, I can go a LONG time in this town without seeing any evidence of Scouting on the streets, on the TV, on the radio, etc. (other than the occasional yard sign with the traditional faded phone number).

[seabear]

I must agree with Madkins007, We been hiding scouting for a very long time now; How offen do you see an article on Scouting, and not the ALCU or something as such, but scouts in action, doing a good deed, How many billboards are up in your council dealing with Scouts? We do not market scouting well for todays youth. The old saying "Out of sight ,Out of Mind"

I believe to some extent that Scouting has not kept up to the times; what can be done by a group of boys outside of scouting compare to what the scouts can do: extreme sports, jet skis, etc...I believe that some have made scouting an advancement program; merit badges, rank without structure ,or challenge, that the basic skills have been place aside.

Yet there are units whom are doing an outstanding program, an their membership has no decline, They vote with their feet.

[packsaddle]

I can only go by what parents tell me, deciding not to join or deciding to leave. But we are growing by approximately 20% per year (or more) and no end in sight. So #20 is lurking out there.

 

1. top pick by a large margin, including skateboarding and videogames.

2. weak second place, related to #1

7. tied for second sometimes slipping to third, surprising concern among some parents

6. distant fourth, specifically mentioned by some families as a reason for leaving

[Hunt]

I've yet to hear anybody who thinks poor program delivery at the unit level is the problem explain why that has resulted in an overall loss of memberhip over a period of years. If you think program delivery, on average, is declining, why? Why should today's program delivery by, on average, worse than program delivery 30 years ago? And what could BSA, on an institutional level, do to improve the situation? (For example, if you think program delivery is declining because of inadequate training, should BSA beef up training requirements, or improve the training?) It's not enough to just say that unit leaders should do a better job--if their performance is declining on average, something would have to be done across the board to improve the performance. What?