Reasons for Declining Membership

[Hunt]

After reading many threads, I'd like to propose an informal poll, so participants can vote on what they think are the reasons for decline in BSA membership. Identify one or more of the following:

 

1. Competition from other activities, such as youth sports.

2. Declining interest in the outdoors.

3. Scandals about membership numbers.

4. Scandals about criminal acts by professionals or volunteers.

5. Bad publicity about accidents.

6. The policy on gay membership.

7. The religious requirement.

8. The failure of local units to deliver a quality program.

9. The uniform.

10. The uniform pants, specifically.

11. Lack of accountability of professional leadership.

12. Overprotectiveness by parents.

13. The ACLU.

14. Continued presence of Pedro the Donkey in Boys Life.

15. Evildoers (other than ACLU)

16. Video games

17. Inability to tie square knot

18. Bad food at summer camp

19. Leaders who spend too much time online.

20. What decline?

[Hunt]

I should give my own answer, I suppose:

 

15. Specifically, I blame Ordep.

[GernBlansten]

Not a single cause but a compilation of reasons.

 

1 is huge, kids have way too many competitors for their time and interest, scouting is just another option in a busy schedule.

 

6,7,9,10 are indicators of scouting slipping from the mainstream of public opinion. Many parents simply do not want their children exposed to the discrimination practices of BSA. Also, to be a scout now puts you in the "NERD/GEEK" crowd amounst their peers. It just ain't cool to be scout now.

 

3,4,5,11 just reinforce negative perceptions of BSA by their detractors.

 

and of course 8, if you don't deliver a good program, you won't retain them. That's the primary reason I left scouting as a boy back in the 70s.

[scoutldr]

I don't think there is a simple answer that can be reduced to a bullet list. I think the "scandals" are area specific...for instance no one in my council knows about the Atlanta or Chicago issues unless they read this forum. I live in the Bible Belt, so the religion thing is not an issue...most are either for it, or at least are not offended by it.

 

In my opinion, kids are "overscheduled" from the time they are 3 years old. By the time they are scout age, they are involved in so many different activities that scouting just doesn't compete, unless it's a one hour meeting a week. Most parents will fit that in, because "scouting is good". When it comes time for a deeper commitment to weekends, serving on committees, training, roundtables, etc., they bail and the kids go with them. If they are told "it's only one hour a week", that's what they are willing to commit. And believe me, they are still actually being told that.

 

Another factor is that kids nowadays are accustomed to their "creature comforts", and aren't interested in bugs, sweat, heat, cold, rain, sun, gathering firewood, washing dishes, cooking, policing up the campsite, etc, because that isn't an expectation at home. They've had everything handed to them, or everything was scheduled for them, so they don't have to think, plan, remember, or manage their time or work for delayed rewards. This is especially evidenced by the Girl Scout council here who had to build air conditioned cabins so girls would come to camp.

 

Before I get thrashed, I realize I am painting with a broad brush, and there are pockets of exception out there. But that's how I see it.

[evmori]

1 - Same amount of time but a ton more ways to fill it.

 

4 - These things always hurt an organization.

 

13 - These jokers are out to destroy the BSA.

 

These are my main three. The others do contribute but a lesser level.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

#8, a failed unit program counts for more than double everything else combined. If units don't have a quality program, there is nothing. Everything else is an excuse for the failure of the unit to deliver.

[GernBlansten]

FS,

Two different kinds of decline. Decline in membership(joined but left) and Decline in recruitment (never joined).

 

8 is huge if you are looking at membership loss.

The rest are huge if you are looking at Recuitment decline. If you can't get them to join, you can't deliver the program.

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not sure membership is declining, but I will accept that premise for this post.

 

We had some guys go to Philmont this year with a Council Contingent and of course a few more go to the Jamboree. They all wore a complete uniform when they were supposed to. Normally its like pulling teeth (another metaphor for FB)to get these kids in a complete uniform. Why did they suit up nice and proper in their best uni's? Because they wanted to go to Philmont and they wanted to go to the Jamboree because they had been told by the last group how much fun was to be had.

 

However, as much as I would like to blame declining numbers on numbskull units that think they have all the answers and have never tried the BSA program, I can't assign all the blame to idiot adults. As I beleive the esteemed Robert Zimmerman once said the times are a-changing. And that was over 40 years ago.

 

How have you changed with the times? When I was naught but a lad, back after Brownsea Island but before the demise of the beloved red berets, there was no such thing as personnel electronics. The closest thing to an Ipod I had was an AM transistor radio with a bent earpiece plug. But today's youth is awash with electronic goodies. I just saw a TV ad for a phone that plays Itunes, or is it an IPod that also takes cell calls? I'll ponder that later. Anyway, any takers that that device wont be sweeping the country?

 

Do you "ban" such devices from your troop? Do you take away from the youth that which is as ubiquitous as a red rubber ball once was?

 

Is it that the boys arent joing the BSA, or is it because boys aren't joining Boy Scout Troops because the troops arent worth joining? If you ask a scout who drops out, what do you think they would say, " I quit scouts because of the BSA's stance on Gays and God" or "Hey, I quit because we didnt do nuthi'n fun"

 

Then maybe its time to look at our adults. I may have mentioned this before, but last year at summer camp I was in the axe yard splitting wood. I love to split wood, its just a feeling I get. So, I am splitting and the scouts clister around and watch. I asked them, half jokingly what they were looking at. Many hadnt seen real log splitting anywhere but on ESPN2. Their fathers dont wield an axe, they dont see it as necessary. I took the ones who wanted and gave them all chances to swing the axe and am I glad it has a fiberglass handle .

 

In the state if Pennsylvania, we have a pretty good sized deer population. With muzzleloading, bow, and rifle season, you would think the deer population would be dramatically cut each year, but it grows. It grows because there are fewer hunters in the woods. Not as many fathers take their sons hunting as back when I was a youth. I think some of scoutings popularuty can be attributed to a general diminishment of woods skills. Not many new dads are familiar with making a fire, so they are not sure how to see a demonstration on fire building, or open fire cooking, or a lot of things we do.

 

so, is it a lack of outdoor skills in adults? A lack of interest in the outdoors by the youth? or is it our political stance? What can we each do to rectify the situation ?

[FScouter]

"If you can't get them to join, you can't deliver the program."

 

That is absolutely right. And if you have a great program, recruitment is a cinch. When boys consider joining, they look for FUN AND EXCITING STUFF. Boys don't not join because of membership "scandals", the ACLU or any of that other stuff. Those are excuses put forth by adult leaders that have failed to create a quality unit program and are looking for someone else to blame for their failure.

[Bob White]

I think you are asking the WRONG PEOPLE.

 

The poll needs to be addressed by the people who left, not the people who watched them leave.

 

The BSA did such a poll a few years ago and found that while the leader of the units who lost the scouts blamed parents, peers and competing activities, the #1 answer from the boys themselves was "boring meetings".

 

We have seen the same avoidance of personal responsibility from posters here on numerous occassions. Some go so far as to blame activities in other councils for boys not coming to their meetings or even quitting.

 

"The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars but in ourselves."

 

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Prairie_Scouter]

I think, as others have said, that there are a variety of reasons for boys not joining Scouting. Not having a quality program is probably amongst the top reasons that Scouts leave Scouting, but I think that the wide variety of other available activities is the #1 reason that they don't join in the 1st place.

 

Once a boy is in Scouting, those that leave fall into a couple of categories, I think. Those that quit pretty quickly, and those who leave much later. Early on, I've seen a handful of reasons for boys quitting, and they're usually not related to the program because at that point, it's all new, and unless a leader is doing a truly awful job, the boy will be having fun simply because it's a new activity. But, sometimes a boy is drawn out by his friends who aren't Scouts and want him to do things with them instead. Some Scouts are already overscheduled, and Scouting loses sometimes because, one, the boys are probably more likely to be drawn to things like traditional sports activities, and two, the parents see these other activities as easier on themselves. And lastly, you see Scouts who got into Cubs because of their parents, and now they're heading into an activity heavily aimed to the outdoors, and they're not really interested in that.

 

Scouts who leave later on leave because of jobs, cars, and girls. The program plays a part in this if it isn't strong enough to hold them in competition with these other activities.

 

Are there poor leaders? Sure. All of us could probably improve in some of the ways we deliver the program. But we need to remember that the program itself is aimed at a particular kind of boy, ie, you have to like the outdoors and by that I mean the outdoors and activities as BSA has defined it in their program. There are plenty of other activities in Scouting, to be sure, but the core is the outdoor program. Some boys will be interested in that some will not. Some will like it and eventually tire of it. A boy who's one true love is baseball won't find a lot in BSA. A boy who loves chess and building computers won't find a lot in BSA. If they try joining BSA and then leave, and you ask them why, they're likely to say that the program was boring. That isn't a criticism of the BSA program, or the leaders, it's just reality that it's not going to fit everyone.

 

Poor leadership will sometimes play a part in why a Scout leaves the program, but placing the lion's share of the blame on the leaders is probably a bit too simplistic. There are too many other factors that could play into the decision to leave. In the past 5 years, we've lost 1 boy who said he was bored, and this was a boy pushed into Scouting by his parents; he probably should have never joined in the 1st place, given his interests. 1 boy left because he felt he was being picked on too much by some other Scouts. In this case, we the leaders failed, because we didn't catch it in time. We've made some changes in an attempt to do better in that area. The few others that left did so because they had too many other activities, including sports that conflicted regularly with Scouts. They were all sports that practiced every day while in season, and their coaches wouldn't allow them any time off for Scouts if they expected to play. So, as I said, a wide variety of reasons.

[Hunt]

I understand the idea that units with bad programs have trouble recruiting and even more trouble retaining. But the opposite should be true: good units should be growing.

 

So, if this is the main cause of national membership declines, that means that the average unit's program is declining in quality. What's the evidence for that, other than the membership decline itself? There were poorly run units when I was a kid, just as there are now. There were always leaders who ignored the program and did things their own way. Has the percentage of adult leaders who are trained gone up or down? (I'll bet the answer is up.) I suppose it could be that the adults are also over-scheduled and less willing to put in the necessary time, but I don't really see that, either. So, without some reason to think that more leaders are delivering bad programs than did in the past, I have trouble seeing this as an explanation for a national decline.

 

For what it's worth, several boys who recently left my son's troop didn't like the outdoors element of the program.

 

I still think Ordep has something to do with it.

[evmori]

What's Ordep

 

(cheap shot at bobwhite removed) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Hunt]

Ordep periodically appears in Boys Life--in fact, he appears in the most recent issue, and it seems he has another nefarious scheme underway.

 

Bob says, "I think you are asking the WRONG PEOPLE."

 

Why? You certainly have an opinion about why membership is declining, and you expressed it. Was the poll you mentioned published somewhere? Such a poll might shed some more light on problems with retention, although perhaps not with recruitment.

[scoutldr]

Yeah, that's it. It's them poles. I think we need fewer poles and more checks.