The Federal Government and Katrina: Incompetent?

[Kahuna]

I just can't let this go by. On another thread, it was alleged that the Bush administration was incompetent in failing the people of Louisiana during hurricane Katrina.

 

How can that be? Primary responsibility for protection of it's citizens is, first, city and county, and, second, state authorities. The federal government cannot get involved until requested by the state.

 

In this case, the mayor of NO had enough busses on hand to evacuate every man, woman and child to shelters away from the city. The busses are still sitting in a flooded parking lot. Those busses carry a lot more school kids every day than the total number of evacuaees in NO.

 

The Governor of Louisiana could have invited the feds in, but expressly told them to stay out. Still, the Governor didn't deploy the National Guard for protection and evacuation. When hurricane Andrew passed thru Miami, the National Guard was out the next day, with shoot-to-kill orders for looters.

 

The City of NO is a notoriously corrupt and incompetent government. It's police department has been a national scandal for years. When Katrina hit, the department fell apart. The police simply fled (I don't mean during the hurricane, I mean before and after). What was the mayor/governor's plan for keeping all those people safe in the Superdome? None, apparently. The feds could not send in active duty troops to enforce the peace, because of the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids using military to enforce civilian law.

 

The Bush administration and FEMA could not have magically appeared on the scene. Even after Andrew, where there were no flood waters, it took a few days to get FEMA operations going on the ground. In NO, they had to do it in an underwater city.

 

So, given all this, and given that FEMA is not quite as good as it was before Homeland Security (and I guess you can lay that at Bush's doorstep), how can the Bush administration be responsible for this tragedy?

[cubbingcarol]

Thank you Kahuna, you took the words right out of my mouth. The Louisiana gov. should be feeling mighty guilty right now along with the mayor.

 

Carol

[evmori]

How can the Bush administration be at fault for this tragedy? Because someone wants them to be at fault!

 

The Bush administration is no more at fault for this tragedy than I am! What a crock! I agree with Kahuna! It was a natural disaster! If the people didn't want to leave - oh well! Then suffer the consequences!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[LovetoCamp]

New Orleans PD at work in Rescue Video!

 

http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart/

[scoutingagain]

My initial reactions to criticism of the Bush Administration was that it was a little pre-mature. Now my reaction is all levels of government could have done better. Clearly the city itself was not as prepared as it could have been, neither was the state. If a third of the police force walks off the job, how is that something the federal government is supposed to plan for? At the same time, by Sunday the magnitude of the disaster seemed to become apparent to most anyone watching the news. Yet on Thursday I listened to an interview with the Director of FEMA, where he denied that there was anyone even in the Convention Center, yet this is where some 2,000 people had been directed to go by the City. There seemed to be a massive failure of communication between all levels of government.

 

The scary thing is we've had 4 years since 9/11 to supposedly improve these types of beaurocratic communications problems and it seems like little if anything along those lines has been improved. How much $$ has been allocated to Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness in the last 4 years? Granted the magnitude of the disaster was probably more that exepected, but that doesn't excuse the lack of communication and cooperation between city, state and federal agencies. The buck has to stop somewhere and if your a Mayor, Governor or President expect that to be your desk.

 

I continue to pray for all those affected and continue to donate what I can to relief efforts. But the government's response to this disaster, both local and federal, deserves a long close look. There are lessons to be learned. We could easily get hit by another CAT 4 Storm this year and more than likely will next year. Those in charge prior to the disaster have some 'splainen to do.

 

Me, I'm going to double check my own disaster kit at home.

 

SA

[OldGreyEagle]

I just dont know(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[AwHeck]

All I can say is that the local disaster support organization I am involved with in the foothills of Colorado emphasizes that usually for the first 48 hours, it's up to the locals. It seems to take 48 hours for the feds to mobilize and that seems to be a fairly well accepted standard around here.

 

With something of this magnitude, I'm sure that there were people and equipment on standby but they need time to get those people and equipment from wherever they are stationed to the affected area - you don't want to move them "close" in advance since hurricanes are unpredictable and you don't want to put your rescuers at risk. "First Responder" Safety is rule 1.

[johndaigler]

Agreed, Kahuna. But I don't think anyone deserves (or will get) a pass on this one. There are a lot of questions that need answers. I'm assuming the Senate will have its hearings, and we'll get closer to the truth. But, I also assume, we'll never really get satisfactory answers to many of the questions.

 

An answer I keep looking for, is: when told to evacuate, why did so many stay?

 

jd

[FScouter]

It was a 2-part disaster. Part one was the hurricane itself. Part 2 was the flooding, caused by man. Man built a city below sea level and surrounded by dikes, with pumps to pump out rain that falls in this bowl. What a ridiculous arrangement.

 

I'd like to see some serious discussion about rebuilding the city on another site.

[OldGreyEagle]

The City of New New Orleans

[CA_Scouter]

I think AWHECK is on the right track....

 

Speaking from some experience, when I lived in the SF Bay Area, we had the Oakland Hills fire, which spanned multiple agencies. At the time, there was no coordination between them, to the point where the fire hydrant fittings in one jurisdiction were incompatible with the next.

 

After that boondoggle, the affected agencies convened a joint task force and set up a regional plan where equipment was made to be compatible, standard communication equipment and protocols were issued, and monthly drills scheduled.

 

And though I have little knowledge of the workings at the Federal/State level, it would seem prudent to evaluate potential disaster areas and do the same with the Fed, State and Local agencies.

 

 

 

 

[resqman]

I have some experience in this area. I have been a member of a rescue team that responds not only locally but state wide. Our team responded to flooding caused by hurricane Floyd several years ago. We responded to mud slides and flooding as a result of a hurricane last year. In both instances, we drove several hours to arrive at the flooded area and were prepared to be self sufficent for several days.

 

Additionally we have participated in several county and state drills for public safety including train wrecks, airplane crashes, and general mass casualty incidents.

 

I will be first to say that there will be plenty of blame to go around on this one. Every level of government from small town up to federal will be blamed for some inadequacy. Inadequate planning, inadequate funding, inadequate response, inadequate manpower, etc.

 

There are many things that are going wrong. Many victims did not evacuate when warned. This could be for many reasons including lack of financial resources to belief it will not be as bad as forecast. Those that did not evacuate did not have adequate supplies stored before hand or their supplies were destroyed as part of the storm. Victims who believe that it is the govt's responsibility to care for them and not their own responsibility to care for themselves.

 

In any event, now that the storm has passed, it will be a tremendous effort to get things working again. An issue that no one seems to want to talk about is who is going to pay for the rescue and recovery.

 

My rescue team has been on standby since Thursday to be deployed out of state. We have the equipment and training to deal with water operations. We have experience in working in flood situations. We do not have the funds to pay for the fuel to drive several trucks 2-3 states away, fuel for 4 boats running 12 hours a day for several days, and fuel to drive trucks and boats home. Add in the cost of food and water. Don't forget to add in the cost of replacing lost, damaged, or consumed equipment and supplies.

 

We spent over $10,000 on actual expenses during hurricane response last year. We are an all volunteer organization so that does NOT include any kind of salary.

 

Solutions cost money. Taxes. Taxpayers do not picket and rally in front of govt buildings asking for better radio communications for interdepartmental traffic. They expect that department heads will play nice and give up money for replacment hoses for the fire department so the police can have replacment armoured vests so next year the police can give up money for new tires for the squad cars so the fire department can buy more defibulators.

 

I don't remember any Tsunamni victims complaing that they had not taken a shower in a week. They were clearing debris from their own streets so services could get to them. Certainly there are many victims who are doing the best they can to survive in very difficult conditions with no hope of it getting better for months.

 

I have been a volunteer public safety member for over a decade. Every call I have been on has always have a problem with communication between the services. This is nothing new. It costs money to add additional channels to a radio so fire can talk to police to talk to EMS. For the most part they have seperate command chains and they recieve orders through their own chains. Fire does not presume to tell the police how to operate or vice versa. This is further complicated by the fact that not all departments use the same bands. Some operate at 400 while others at 800. Most radios can only operate on one band. Multiple band radios are available but at a higher cost.

 

I would also like to put in a word for those Fire, Police, Rescue, and EMS workers in New Orleans. Their homes and familes were not immune to the hurricane. They have familes who are scrambling for water, food, and shelter. If your kids had not eaten in several days and were dehydrated, would your first priority be to report to work?

 

I believe there are things that could be done now that would provide immediate relief in the region. I know that many citizens and public safety workers alike would like to respond and offer assistance. I hope that those charged with making decisions, make then soon so that the extent of suffering is diminished.

[knottyfox]

It is so refreshing to see that many of the folks in this forum have 20/20 hindsite vision! How can you folks be so insensitive? "If they chose to stay, let them suffer the consequences!" What a horrible thing to say! What you are saying here is that I chose to wake up this morning and take the chance of driving to work knowing that I could get in a wreck. BAM, got in a wreck! Oh well fella, you are on your own.

I live here where the mess is, come and see what I am seeing. Come down and try to work with folks as my family and I have. Come and live with us and get to know the culture, then critique. One of the Parish Presidents stated "I am tired of news conferences! Send us some help!" Well...Any takers?

Please don't be so harsh on either the victoms or the officials. Did you liston to what Clinton said? I can't quote directly but the intent was, lets get these folks immediate help and do the best we can then go back and critique. OOPS! New Wood Badge, we don't critique we evaluate!

These are good people that are dying here. Don't focus on the bad. Give us a hand....

[Backpacker]

I agree with acouple of posters here, first FEMA has become so disjointed since it went under Homeland Security, the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing and thats because Homeland is still trying to figure out who is really in charge when something happens jurisdiction boundaries are now all askew. F-Scouter is also correct, experts on engineering, ecosystems, etc. are all saying you can not rebuild New Orleans the same way,otherwise this will just happen again. The government needs to get things organized and rebuilt smarter, not quicker and the least costly methods. There is plenty of blame to go around but it seems that Homeland Security being the central control is not working, let each agency be responsible in its own area of expertise rather than trying to be a Walmart, all things rolled into one stop shopping. I shudder to think what will happen if there is another terrorist attack on our soil, the chaos will be unbelievable.

[Kahuna]

Yeah, FEMA could have done better and it sounds like the scapegoat will be Brown. It would have gone much better if they'd had a Rudy Guilliani type out there with a bull horn. Congress is already set to investigate. It'll go according to party lines. It just pulls my chain that the mainstream media is crucifying Bush over this when the primary fault is the locals on this one. And Jesse Jackson is out there screaming that if all those people were white, they would have been miraculously rescued. I can't see that race had anything to do with any of it.