jkhny Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 OK, I didn't realize that Smith is the one that fired St. Jean....that update requires a revisit Screaming irony. Makes BSA look like flaming hypocrites, The guy who is so anti-gay FIRES a long time apparently gay staffer yet is allowed to retire himself when caught by the FBI distributing kiddie porn (focused on underage BOYS engaged in graphic sexual acts). Some will note that Smith supposedly never acted on this "interest" - or at least that's what is claimed. But many would think that this interest alone makes Smith "gay" or just a pedophile (since children are abused in producing this material). And is anyone SURE he NEVER acted on this "interest"? And that is assumong that BSA had the right to fire both - why the disparity in treatment? "The Boy Scouts of America, Inc. has fired Dennis St. Jean, the former director of the Florida Seabase, after discovering that he went to a predominately gay resort in Key West while on vacation. St. Jean, who had a glowing record within the BSA, had been a professional Scouter since 1973 and was less than two years away from retirement. The BSA executive from National Headquarters in Texas who did the firing was Douglas S. Smith, who was arrested two weeks later on Federal child pornography charges. Smith had previously been a vocal supporter of the BSA's stance for "traditional scouting values" and a letter of his in support of the BSA's discriminatory membership policy was discreetly pulled from BSA's public relations web site shortly after his arrest. Apparently, the BSA Inc. allowed Smith to retire and keep his benefits after he was arrested, while the BSA is fighting St. Jean's attempts to collect full retirement benefits even after his firing in apparent violation of local anti-discrimination laws in Florida. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 So what exactly do want us to do with story? It doesn't teach a skill, it won't make a good skit. It can't be sung on a hike, It won't make a good ceremony. It's too long for a scoutmasters minute. How do you use this information to improve the quality of your next scout meeting for the Scouts you serve? What is it you want these posts of yours to achieve? What exactly is your role in scouting that is benefitted by these news flashes. (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 jkhny, you have repeatedly claimed that Smith was "allowed to retire" rather than being fired. Do you have any evidence that BSA had the legal option to deny him his retirement benefits? Don't you think he would have been fired if he hadn't retired? While I think his behavior was hypocritical and hurts the image of Scouting and all Scouters, I haven't seen any real evidence that BSA knew about it, condoned it, or gave him anything other than what he was legally entitled to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 jkhny, I'm not sure what you want me to do with that information or how it applies to me......but boy, let me tell you about the last meeting our unit had, it was a dandy........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 "What is it you want these posts of yours to achieve?" Bears repeating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA_Scouter Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 We're back to 'now say two nice things' jkhny. What do you want us to do? Quit? Give up Scouting? There are thousands and thousands of good, fantastic volunteers in Scouting, and you focus only on the few bad apples. Glass half-empty kinda guy, are ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The decision to fire someone, especially someone like St.Jean, I am sure, is not easy. Something like this is not an individual decision, but a group effort. How/Why Smith got the short straw to tell St. Jean I have no idea, but did the BSA know that Smith was a kiddie-porn user when it sent him off to fire St Jean? I agree the irony is tremoundous, but I dont think it reflects poorly on the BSA. John Wayne Gacy worked part-time as a clown and had a photo taken with then first lady Rosalyn Carter. Does that make Mrs. Carter complicit in Gacy's sex crimes? All I have read, and would welcome additional information, is that Smith's porn was on a home computer and no one at the BSA office had any inkling about Smith's Kiddie-porn. After the scandal broke, Smith left and retired. Now, I am not at all familiar with the StJean case at all. But from what has been presented, I have to ask a few questions, mostly rhetorical in nature, I am not sure they can be answered. When St Jean was fired, was he offered the chance to resign and the offer rebuffed? How would we know? next, while I have never been to Seabase, I have an idea of where it is. I also know where Key West is. If St.Jean works for a company that has a "no avowed gays", why is he at a known seabase "port of call" in a gay resort? Didnt he think he might be spotted? Does this show rational judgement? I have never heard of StJean before this, and have no animosity towards him, but what was thinking? As Bob WHites points out you can be gay in boy scouts, just not avowed, Statistics would indicate that there may be some gay Council executives but I doubt they frequent the Blue Oyster Bar. The funny thing about firings is the employer is bound by law not to disclose certain information, no matter how badly we want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie_Scouter Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Bob, For the reasons you listed, this post would not be appropriate for the "regular" Scouting forums, but is appropriate for "Issues and Politics", which is where jkhny placed it. As far as St John is concerned, I did have the opportunity to meet him in 2004 at a trip to Seabase. Seemed like great administrator, really interested in his program and making sure the Scouts had a good experience. Exactly the kind of guy we should all want in Scouting. According to news reports at the time, he did not "avow" himself, causing his firing. It is suspected that an irate employee reported his attendance at a predominantly gay retreat. Of course, we don't have all the details, but it appears he wasn't successful getting an out-of-court settlement from BSA, so it's most likely he'll sue under Florida's anti-discrimination employment laws, giving BSA yet more unwanted publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 jk, Please don't be careless or glib about the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. It seems oversimplified that the gentleman was fired for being in the same place as homosexuals. Doesn't sound like the best vacation spot for a Scout executive, but I would hope his choice of vacations is not the reason he was fired. I don't see any way to obtain enough information about this to make a legitimate judgement about the choices made by Mssrs. St. Jean, Smith, Williams, or any other BSAer. So, jk, I guess the questions remain - What should we do with this version of the story? What's your purpose or point? Are you looking for some kind of response? jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Prairie, it is interesting how you singled me out when several others have asked the very same question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Give me a couple days & I'll give you a great skit you would be able to use at any BSA campfire! And give me a couple more days & I'll give you a song, too! Prairie, it is interesting how you singled me out when several others have asked the very same question. Maybe cause you brought it up 1st? Just a thought! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 WOW!you're good Prairie Scouter...I didn't even see your lips move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 JD, I was thinking something similar. Thanks for your observations. If merely associating with gays gets you terminated, then I'm toast. I also hope there was more to the decision than has been posted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I agree with Ed. I could make up a heck of a skit out of all this. Packsaddle: I agree with you, too. If associating with gays makes us suspect, we're in trouble. I really hope there was more to the St. Jean firing than going to a gay retreat or resort or whatever it was. In Key West, it's hard to tell the difference and I don't mean that in a snide way. It's just the way it is down in the Conch Republic. Bob: Lighten up, will ya? You must see that this is exactly what makes you the target you complain about being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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