BSA policies vs. membership: where's the proof?

[fgoodwin]

I know there have been various threads discussing the reasons behind BSA's membership decline. Some have suggested that BSA's policies regarding gays and God (and to a lesser extent, girls) have contributed to the membership decline.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that, but if anyone has a link to an online study that has examined this issue, I'd love to read it. I have not been able to find one, but I did find a study that looked at the decline in membership in Scouts Canada:

 

http://scoutdocs.ca/Membership_Retention/MRST.html

 

I've heard (but I don't have a reference) that Scouts Canada does not exclude gays. It is also open to girls. But I think it still excludes atheists.

 

So, Scouts Canada is more open than BSA with respect to two of the "3Gs", yet is seeing a steeper decline in membership than BSA:

 

Scouts Canada: 18% decline from 1995 to 2000 (see above URL)

BSA: 3% decline from 1995 to 2000 (see URL below):

 

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa-membership.html

 

So those who attribute BSA's decline to its policy on girls, gays and atheists will need to explain the even greater decline in Scouts Canada, even though they are open to girls & gays.

[fgoodwin]

And before anyone complains that my data are pre-"Dale", I can only say I used what I could find.

 

The Canadian study was over the 1995-2000 timeframe, and I wanted to use the same timeframe for BSA to make the results comparable.

 

If anyone has more recent data, by all means post it.

[greenSM]

First let me state that my input is purely anecdotal.

Our De was recently promoted to SrDE for all of his 'efforts.' Yet within two miles of my house there are at least five "ghost packs." Some of these "packs" have existed for over a decade. The District hierarchy awarded themselves many awards last fall for all of heir hard work as leaders and commisioners of these units.

When faced with this kind of attitude even at the District level (and an even less responsive Council) many Scouters and parents elect to spend their time on other activities- any other activities.

When it gets to be ALL about the numbers and the MONEY it is no longer about the boys.

[Bob White]

DEs are not made SR. DEs based on "all their efforts" it s based on time served and training completed.

 

This just helps to highlight the vast amount of misinformation and misconceptions that fuel these kinds or things.

 

If you don't understand the small stuff how will the big stuff make any sense?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

I'm sure the previous post has some relevance to this thread but what is the relevance other than to tell someone they are wrong?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

I have some comments to make on the previous three posts, first off, greenSM welcome to the forums. You may NOT realize it but YOU do have a style that is very SIMILAR to another poster, jkhny. In FACT the styles are SO similar as to make one wonder if you two guys ARE related to each other. Look up some of jkhny's posts and YOU will see what I mean.

 

next, BobWhite, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob you were doing fine until the sentence

 

"If you don't understand the small stuff how will the big stuff make any sense?"

 

its that sort of comment that gets people angry. You had made your point and this added boost is what inflames people

 

and finally Ed, you again show the form, style and panache that make you the ultimate basshole.

[Bob White]

My apologies the last line was not intended as a personal message to green but as an explaination of the problem.

[fgoodwin]

OK girls, I hate to break up the gab-fest -- but do any of you actually have anything that proves (or refutes) the assertion that BSA's membership declines can be attributed to its membership policies?

[evmori]

Actually, OGE. The adults in our Troop are members of the Bass Hole Patrol. And not for the reason you think.

 

I don't have any facts, but I don't feel membership numbers are down because of the gay & atheist policies. I have a feeling this is a cyclical thing like back in the 60's & 70's. Membership numbers were down then and they made a rebound. And they will rebound again!

 

I think people use the gay & atheist policies as an excuse to not join but I don't think those are the real reasons. I'm not sure what the reasons are, though.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Only a speech at a commissioners college from a regional commissioner saying that the loss is not in recuitment numbers according the BSA analysis but in retention rates at three specific program periods.

 

The problem is not recruitment, kids still want to be cub scouts. The problem is in keeping them at crticial times in their advancement. All three relate to program delivery. Which brings us back to unit program and its dependency on trained leaders willing to follow the program.

 

The council I am in reflects that. Our recruitment has grown nearly every year the past few years, the challenge is keeping ahead of the losses occured at the same time that national has forcasted.

 

If the problem were membership policies we would have far lower recruitment numbers causing the dip rather than loss of current members causing it.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[OldGreyEagle]

A thousand pardons I beg Ed, I meant Bass Hole, it was a typo

[evmori]

I'm not sure about my council, but I know the recruitment numbers in my district are down. So actually it could be a mixture of retention & recruitment!

 

OGE,

No problem! Honest mistake. No apology necessary.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten]

I'm a bit dense but now I think I understand.

Membership numbers are down because of us volunteers. It all comes down on us unpaid lackeys who just don't get it. The paid dudes at the top are doing their best, but us unwashed masses just can't deliver it.

It had eluded me for a while, but I've had an eppiphany. Thanks BW. I'll take that to the next committee meeting and spread your vision.

[Bob White]

Gern, what in your opinion has the biggest effect on whether or not a scout and his family enjoy scouting if not the quality of the unit meetings?

 

Who is responsible for your next meeting?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Backpacker]

Ok Bob this is not meant as an attack on you but SR DE is not automatically given out for time served and training, every DE must also achieve all of their money and number goals as well, there are many DE's who have served for many years that never go higher in the ranks even with the training.

 

Now this comes from my six years as both a DE and Sr. DE and from National's professional policies and all my trainings at National, your reply to that poster was incorrect. What were your resources for the reply you gave, for all my years in scouting I never heard anything like it? National does not make it a policy to promote deadwood or marginal De's just because they have been around a while. And you have told us in the past that you never were in the ranks of professional scouting so I am curious where you got this from.(This message has been edited by Backpacker)