jkhny Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Comparisons. Look at the difference in annual reports. Both are PR exercises but which provides clear and concise and detailed information? BSA Annual Report BSA claimed 3.2 million in Scouting in 2003 1.5 million more "Learning for Life" Is this included? or separate? http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc go to Facts and Figures and then go to annual report 2003 GSA Annual report GSA claimed 2.8 million in Scouting in 2003 http://www.girlscouts.org/who_we_are/facts/pdf/2003annual_report.pdf "Scouting" counts not all that different with BSA 10% larger than GSA with official counts. Do both count the same way? Assume they do. I'm not sure how to account for Learning for Life - is that a separate corporation within BSA? or is it outside BSA? Is LFL overhead, dues, costs per youth the same as Scouting if it should be included? Facts and figures from 2003 990 tax filings In Part I Total Assets end of year line 59 GSA $177 million vs GSA $648 million Net Assets line 21 GSA $165 million vs BSA $528 million In Part II Membership fees GSA $26 million vs BSA $109 million Total functional expenses GSA $81 million vs BSA $ 166 million Salaries GSA $28 million vs BSA $44 million GSA CEO $324,417 + $25,495 benefits/def comp in NYC BSA CSE $ 455,192 + $ 22,955 benefits/def comp in TX Only in BSA, Conferences, conventions and meetings $ 4.8 million Same line for GSA $0 BSA's largest independent contractor was Hughes, Hubbard and Reed - "attorney" with $2,353,839 listed GSA's largest independent contractor was GCI Washington - a software development firm working on "development of membership system" with $983,145 listed You can't help but wonder: Why such differences? Frankly, BSA seems pretty well off for an organization that's regularly asking for money. Exactly what ARE all those assets? Camps? property? $439 million is listed under "Assets - securities with another $63 million in "Savings an temporary cash investments" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Great to see that both BSA and GSA are doing well and have a strong balance sheet to sustain them well into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 So whats the GSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Great Scott, Alphonse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 The asset gap could be tents. The GSA doesn't not camp in tents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 FYI- There is no such organization as the "GSA". The group you are referring to is the Girl Scouts of the USA, abreviated GSUSA. Do not make the mistake of referring to them as 'GSA'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Well, there IS such an "organization" as the "GSA" but it has nothing to do with Girl Scouts. As any student of U.S. government (or anyone who has gone into a federal office building and read the logo on the floor mats) can tell you, "GSA" stands for General Services Administration. It is a very large federal agency and among other things, it operates almost all non-military federal facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Well done emb021 and NJCubScouter Its always helps the thread if correct terms are used. Perhaps most knew GSA meant Girl Scouts, but its always nice to know the facts before you start to spew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 and BSA is an advertising company. Check out www.bsa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 BTW Gern, girls camp in tents too. Actually, many councils own their own tents which they let individual Troops borrow so that the Troop does not have to purchase any. Some Troops purchase Troop tents, other Troops use the members personal equipment. Comparing GSUSA & BSA is never a good idea because of the different ways the two organizations are set up. Jkhny - I'm really not sure what point(s) you are trying to make by your comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhny Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Why is BSA so much more expensive to run? Where IS the money going? (it's not tents) And if you really looked at the annual reports, why is Boy Scout's report so "unclear" and "imprecise" with numbers - while Girl Scouts so VERY clear and detailed. Boy Scouts is OUR orgnization. We should be a bit interested in finances. And while it's having a ton of cash means little if you keep losing membership - and just why is Boy Scouts collecting 4X the fees Girl Scouts is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Me Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I question the membership of the Girls scouts. My wife is a GSUSA leader I am a Cub Scout leader. From my personal experience there seems to be twice the number of cubs as there are cub-age girl scouts. And I think the trend lines diverage as the age of the scout increases. I would expect the BSA/GSUSA to be closer to 4/1. On money raising BSA Vs GSUSA. The GSUSA has huge money contributor in the cookie sales. Our popcorn sales can't even come close. Thus BSA dues must be higher to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 "On money raising BSA Vs GSUSA. The GSUSA has huge money contributor in the cookie sales. Our popcorn sales can't even come close. Thus BSA dues must be higher to compensate. " AFAIK, Girl Scout cookie sales fund National, Councils, and units. Boy Scout popcorn sales only goes to councils and units. Nothing goes to BSA National. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhammer Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Without comment on the intent of the thread, I will add that the IRS 990 form you're referencing does not really include all of BSA. (I have no idea how many corporate identities comprise GSUSA.) BSA councils are all independent corporations, and their assets and P&L are probably not reflected in the above. More significantly, though, is the fact that at a national level BSA has multiple entities, making it difficult to get a true picture of the entire organizations business practices. At least a few years ago, I know there were separate tax returns filed for Supply Division (as I recall that was a bit more than $100 million in additional revenue), the Publishing group (Boys Life and Scouting) had separate tax returns (and were separate corporations), and without searching my notes I believe there was another corporate entity that held the BSA Employee retirement trust funds (which was making so much "profit" because of how well the market was performing that the IRS was placing it's non-profit status in question, and that was dealt with by offering early retirement packages a few years ago). Additionally, the Chief Scout Executive received a paycheck for that role, and additional paychecks for his editorial roles in the Publishing Group, etc. It would be very interesting to understand the true balance sheet and P&L for the entire national organization, and how that might compare to the collective financial position of the independent council corporations. My sense is the numbers outlined above are a fraction of the total picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie_Scouter Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Well, I guess you better be generating a good deal of income if you're going to be paying someone $455,000. Once again, I have chosen the wrong career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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