Legalizing Illegal immigrants

[Backpacker]

Carol and Kahuna

 

I said being a Christian and a scouter, either/ or.

 

However your posts just prove my point, intolerance abounds, as well as not really understanding the whole issue. Are you aware that Homeland Security is currentlyissuing ID cards to non citizens who cross the border on a regular basis so that they do not have to go through processing over and over again?(This message has been edited by Backpacker)

[Prairie_Scouter]

It's about time we covered up that plaque on the Statue of Liberty and replaced it with one that says "we're the richest country on earth and we want to keep it that way. Get Lost."

 

As the mightiest and most prosperous country in the world, it IS our burden to help these people and open opportunities to them. Our country became great because of this way of doing things. Yes, INS needs to clean up its act, but that doesn't mean shutting down the borders.

 

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Again, I havent seen anybody here say we should close down borders or prevent immigration, only that immigration should be done legally.

 

yes PS, the statue of liberty has those words, and many read them on the ship on its way to Ellis Island, where they were processed into the country.

 

Perhaps the question should be how do we stop the illegal immigration and yet not turn our backs on people who want to live here, or are these aims mutually exclusive?

[scoutingagain]

I agree with OGE. As a Nation of immigrants, I don't think many are talking about closing the borders. However, from a security standpoint I think the government, in it's role of protecting it's citizens, has ever right to know who is comming and going and what their plans are in this country.

 

As long as we continue to allow and enable people to illegally enter and live in our country we condemn them to a second class status that makes them easily exploited. Finding ways to allow legal immigration can only protect those that already live here as well as those that want to come here.

 

SA

[Prairie_Scouter]

I agree, OGE, I certainly do.

I don't know how INS should fix up their act, but whatever we do to support the immigrants who have found their way here is going to need the support of the American people. There's going to be difficulty in doing that as long as some perpetuate the myth that all immigrants come here to steal American jobs and are basically all ne're do wells.

 

What would I do?

Well, the reality is that they are here, and weeding them out will use up a fantastic amount of resources at this point. So, the 1st thing I'd do is have the president live up to his campaign promise to provide a general amnesty to those who are already here. Make it painless for them to register and get residency status. That would allow us to do background checks, as needed. Now the "bad guys" will, of course, avoid this, but by giving the law-abiding immigrants legal status, it becomes that much easier to root out those who might do wrong. And, by giving them legal status, it makes it less likely that they will be taken advantage of by those of our own citizens who would do them wrong.

 

Next, I'd figure out a way to control the borders better. One way is to provide a reasonable process for entering the country. I don't know what that might be, but it would be different from whatever we're doing now, which clearly doesn't work.

 

And lastly, figure out ways to effectively integrate them into American society, recognizing their cultural roots. You want them to learn to speak and read English effectively, but we need to recognize the time that this will take, and provide multi-lingual services.

 

The DMVs, etc, who are trying to figure out ways to grant illegal aliens driver's licenses, etc, are really just dealing with reality. The immigrants are here, they're not going away. We might as well figure out a way to deal with it, and get the problems fixed.

[Backpacker]

 

The US government has tried to deal ineffectually with this problem by putting quotas on immigrants such as Asian and Arab countries, so what happens, they get smuggled in on ship cargo containers by the thousands. As far as closing the borders, that is just about impossible, there are large areas on the Canadian as well as the Mexican borders where a person could cross and never see another person. It would take a humungous amont of money and manpower to close our borders that our government can and will not spend, why, because these illegals provide cheap labor to many industries that make large political contributions. An example is the agricultural industry, without this cheap labor you would pay $2-3 for an orange or an apple in the store like they do in Japan and Europe.

 

So OGE to answer your question, stopping illegals into this country is not and never really has been a high priority for the government,and the main reason is ECONOMICS!!! Immigrants have provided cheap labor that helped build our countries industries.

[Kahuna]

Backpacker: Intolerant is defined by Webster as

1 : unable or unwilling to endure

2 a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : BIGOTED

 

I assume you aren't talking about 1 or 2 a, so you apparently meant 2 b. I plead guilty to being unwilling to grant or share social, political or professional rights with those who are in this country illegally.

 

Bigoted is defined as "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices." I certainly am guilty of that as it pertains to 2b above as it relates to illegals.

 

Are you tolerant of someone who breaks into your house and steals your things? Are you tolerant of someone who tries to harm you or your family?

 

BTW, what does the Homeland Security ID system have to do with sneaking across the border?

 

[Backpacker]

Kahuna

 

First, that Homeland Security ID has been issued to Mexican citizens who have used it to cross the border and stay in the US permanently using that id to obtain work and lodging here in the US.

 

Second, from your own definition, #1 seems to fit as well. (What does someone breaking into your home have to do with this topic?)

I have also read several recent articles about your home state wanting to seceed from the US and become an independent nation, does that make all Hawaiians anti American, no. You see intolerance has a wide range and scope more so than a mere dictionary definition, but how a culture or group puts it into practice

[stlscouter]

TOUNGUE IN CHEEK Maybe we could declare them a religious oganization and deny them acess to any and all government services and programs!

smile

[Hunt]

Is there any legal way for poor, unskilled,uneducated people from Latin America to emigrate to the United States?

 

It also seems that we shouldn't get on our high horse too much about these terrible illegal immigrants, since most of us are enjoying this fine country because our ancestors took it from its original inhabitants,and then violently rebelled against the governments who sent them to colonize it.

[Kahuna]

Backpacker, With all due respect, I am unable to make any sense out of your answer. Giving ID cards to people who cross the border frequently has nothing to do with illegal immigration. It's not a question of where they work, it's where they reside and what government they look to for benefits. If they live in Mexico and cross the borders frequently, they are not illegals, are they?

 

I don't see how definition 1 comes into it, but I suppose I would agree I'm not willing to endure further illegal immigration, too.

 

(What does someone breaking into your home have to do with this topic?) It means that we do not have be tolerant when it comes to breaking the law or causing harm to us. Tolerance in the sense you mean, as far as I'm concerned, has to do with granting equal respect and rights to those who are entitled to them. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are not so entitled. Neither is a burgler in my home.

 

I'm not at all sure what the separatist movements in Hawai'i have to do with illegal immigration, but I certainly am much more aware of the views of these groups than you are. I assure you that they ARE anti-American. How much more anti-American can you be than wanting to separate from your own country? They certainly do not reflect the views of most of the people of Hawai'i and I do not believe they reflect the views of most of the people of Hawaiian ancestry. People who hold views like yours have given these fringe groups the boost they needed to feel that their views and rights must be accomodated by law. It won't be long, IMHO, before groups of Hispanics in the mainland U.S. are demanding the same rights to secede and form their own nation.

 

[berkshirescouter]

On the humorous side.

I wonder if this really happens?

 

Mujibar was trying to get into America legally through Immigration.

The Immigration Officer said, "Mujibar, you have passed all the tests, except there is one more test. Unless you pass it you cannot enter America." Mujibar said, "I am ready."

 

The officer said, "Make a sentence using the words

Yellow, Pink and Green."

 

 

Mujibar thought for a few minutes and said,

"Mister Officer, I am ready." The Officer said, "Go ahead."

 

 

Mujibar said,

"The telephone goes "green, green, green",

and I pink it up, and say,

"Yellow,this is Mujibar.'"

 

Mujibar now lives in a neighborhood near you and

works at Dell on the Help Desk.

 

[Backpacker]

Trail Day

 

That was a great story, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Thanks.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

I didn't know whether to resurrect this thread, post this under the Katrina response thread or the America thread, since that touched on immigration issues as well. But I thought I'd share this information on how this Administation is dealing with the immigration issue as well as Katrina Response.

 

"To stimulate relief efforts, President Bush suspended portions of the Davis-Bacon Act, which requires that construction workers on federal projects be paid the prevailing local wage. Then the Department of Homeland Security said it would not penalize employers who hired illegal workers. While the idea behind these actions is to lower costs, cut red tape and accelerate rebuilding, the reality is that contractors will have free rein to hire undocumented workers."

 

 

The full text of the article can be found at http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20051014/cm_usatoday/katrinasnextexposimmigrationwoes;_ylt=ArEWMY9Iuy6VjuDTvyR1zSms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3YWFzYnA2BHNlYwM3NDI-

 

SA

[FScouter]

There is a penalty for hiring illegal aliens?