Legalizing Illegal immigrants

[OldGreyEagle]

I need some help understanding here. Why is the country trying to figure out how to give drviers licenses, high school diplomas and collge educations to "illegal immigrants"? What part of the word Illegal do I not understand? How does a governmental unit, the DMV give a document to a person who is breaking the law?

 

I know with this diverse group I might get some ideas.

[evmori]

I'm with you, OGE. I can't figure it out either.

[acco40]

I was not aware that the government was. I know that non-citizens can go to school, get jobs, join the BSA, etc. but not illegal aliens. In fact, is "illegal immigrants" a legal term at all?

[OldGreyEagle]

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/state/all-a1_5latinojul19,0,7534775.story

 

(copy complete address, do not just click on link)

 

This is the article that got me going. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Kahuna]

OGE, I followed the link, but it didn't take me to the article. It seems to me that there is a politically liberal group of people who feel that illegal immigrants should be as much a part of the culture as anyone else. They give a lot of reasons for this belief, none that impress me too much. The current administration, while not advocating some of these moves, is obviously not eager to put a stop to the illegal influx either. The liberal politicians hope to gain votes from the illegals and the conservative ones don't wish to alienate the (primarily Hispanic) voters they have.

 

It's clear to me that 1) Illegals are illegals and should be sent home, and 2) Someday a terrorist with anthrax or a big bomb is going to come thru the border and kill a lot of people.

 

Why nobody in the government or in the oppostition seems to understand this is beyond me!

[NJCubScouter]

It could be a couple things:

 

I think both political parties believe that our immigration policies are too restrictive, but especially in the post-9/11 environment, they don't want to be seen actually changing the immigration laws to allow more immigration. So they take these half-measures like making people who are here illegally seem more like like immigrants.

 

On the other hand, both political parties also want to pander to ethnic groups (within the legal, citizen, voting population) who would like to see more of their ethnic brethren allowed in, or not chased out, and eventually "legalized."

 

As for Kahuna's comments about terrorists, history has shown that anyone can set off a bomb or use an airplane as a weapon, and kill a lot of people. It can be an illegal alien like some of the 9-11 killers; it can be someone who has entered the country legally like others of the 9-11 killers; or it can be someone who is a native-born citizen like Timothy McVeigh. If I get blown up by a terrorist, his immigration status is not going to be all that relevant to me at the time.

[berkshirescouter]

I have a comment. NJ I agree with you, but especially on the point that the laws are to restrictive. I have a friend who married a women from SE Asia 2 years ago. They are still jumping trough hoops to legally enter the country. If she came in illegally she would be with him now. Either change the law or enforce the law.(This message has been edited by Its Trail Day)(This message has been edited by Its Trail Day)

[evmori]

Maybe the laws are too restrictive, but they are the laws. Why should someone who is in this country illegally reap the same benefits as I do? Not a good idea.

 

Kahuna,

I understand you point! Amen!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutingagain]

OGE I tend to agree. I have no problem with legal immigrants having access to basic systems they need to live and work here. Drivers licenses, education, health care etc. And as a Nation of immigrants I would not want to see us close our borders to others, but in the current world would like to have greater awarenesss of who's comming and going.

 

When we open those doors to illegal immigrants though it seems to me we enable the process and actually encourage illegal immigration.

 

However, I would not paint this issue as liberal vrs. conservative in the classic sense. Organized labor, a decidedly Democratice group, is very much against illegal immigration and it's our current President that has been among those politicians most sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants.

 

Who do you think employ's all those worker's willing to work for less than minimum wage, and afraid to call in government regulators to express concerns about safety or environment issues. Sure, you may find an elite liberal Democrat once and a while with a maid without a green card, but it's private business owners, a group more likely to vote Republican that employs the majority of these people.

 

Right now, what little effort in enforcement there is, is directed at those poor soles that simply want to come to this country and work for more $$ than they can earn at home if they even have an opportunity for a job in their own country. If enforcement was aimed at US employers, illegal immigration would drop dramatically. Which group do you think contributes more to political campaigns?

 

Sorry for being so cynical, but like you OGE this issue sometimes gets me going.

 

SA

 

 

[cubbingcarol]

This is a hot topic for me. If I could shut the borders down completely I would do it. Apply to get in the legal and correct way or stay your a@# out. This country has people who are starving, homeless, without adequate healthcare (or insurance), etc. who were all born here. Until we can take care of our own why should we take care of someone here illegally?

 

Carol

[OldGreyEagle]

I understand your point SA, but the local paper and I am confounded to provide a link to it, so I will post the entire story here.

 

I understand the republicans and big business have a lot at stake with illegals and apparently so do the democrats, think its time to start a third party, the Citizens?

 

PHILADELPHIA | U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton got a standing ovation Monday at a convention of the nation's largest Hispanic civil rights organization when she pledged support for federal legislation that would make it easier for high school graduates who are illegal immigrants to attend college.

 

Clinton, D-N.Y., made her remarks at the annual convention of the National Council of La Raza, which said it has drawn almost 23,000 people from around the country, including Hispanic leaders from the Lehigh Valley, to the Pennsylvania Convention Center.

 

''I hope with your help we will make the DREAM Act reality this year,'' said Clinton, a potential candidate for president in 2008.

 

The so-called DREAM Act would give an estimated 65,000 illegal immigrant students who graduate from high school annually legal status that could lead to citizenship.

 

The legislation, which has been supported by U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., has been introduced twice but has never come to a vote. Supporters hope it will be reintroduced this year.

 

In her remarks, Clinton referred to a rally that convention attendees held over the weekend in center city Philadelphia in support of the DREAM Act, or the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minorities Act.

 

Clinton praised four high school students from Arizona featured at the rally. Organizers said the illegal immigrants beat students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in a science competition, but can't attend college because of their status. Supporters of the DREAM Act point to such success stories as examples of talented students who would come to a dead-end after high school.

 

''I want to be sure I get their names,'' Clinton said of the students from Arizona. ''I want to make sure these students go to college.''

 

Students' illegal status renders them ineligible for financial aid. Labeled international students, they must pay up to three times the tuition of American students, making college financially unfeasible. And even if they earn a degree, they remain illegal immigrants, unauthorized to work.

 

The National Council of La Raza, headquartered in Washington, D.C., was established in 1968 and says its mission is to fight poverty and discrimination and improve life opportunities for Hispanics.

 

In her remarks, Clinton said that while organizations like NCLR are doing their part to promote education among Hispanics, the government is not doing enough to, among other things, bring down high dropout rates and make college affordable.

 

Among other issues, Clinton talked about the high representation of Hispanic children and adults in lead and paint poisoning cases and the high-cost that Hispanic immigrants pay to wire money to their home countries. In the last two cases, she said she has proposed legislation to remedy the problems.

 

Clinton was preceded in her speech by U.S. Education Secretary Margaret Spellings. She praised President Bush's No Child Left Behind initiative for helping bridge the gap in student achievement between Hispanic children and their white counterparts.

 

Spellings said gains among Hispanic children have helped in the overall academic improvement reflected in recently released data. The National Assessment of Education Progress report last week, she said, shows that reading and math scores have improved among 9-year-olds.

 

''These results did not come out of thin air,'' she said.

 

Puerto Rico Gov. Anibal Acevedo-Vila, who also addressed the convention, focused on the need to develop Hispanic leaders in the United States in the political and corporate arenas. He also had praise for Hispanics, particularly Puerto Ricans, who have served in this country's wars.

 

He shared a story of a mother in Puerto Rico who received news that her son, Ramon, had died in Iraq. He said the mother was sad but did not cry. Instead, he saw in her somber face a look of ''orgullo,'' or pride.

 

''Thanks to Ramon,'' Acevedo-Vila said, ''we can be proud to say it is our time'' to become leaders in the United States. ''Lo hemos ganado con sangre y sudor.'' (We have earned it with blood and sweat.)

 

The conference, which began Saturday and ends today, also featured sessions on topics such as strategies to incorporate Latino prisoners into society and providing affordable housing to the poor.

 

Today's speakers include Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and his Republican counterpart, Ken Melhman, and U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez.

 

It's the first time the chairmen of both national committees will speak to the NCLR. That's a sign that both parties recognize the importance of the 40 million Hispanics in the country and their potential voting power, according to the group.

 

 

I have no problem with helping those less fortunate than I am, I have no problem with govermental assitance of those in need. But is it wrong to insist that those who receive aid are here legally?

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[SeattlePioneer]

I find it interesting that a good many state governors are complaining about Federal requirements that state offices issuing driver's licenses verify that applicants for driver's licenses are legal residents before issuing a license. The complaint is that this is an unreasonable burden for such officials to perform.

 

Yet these are the same people who register people to vote under "motor voter" laws. Presumably that have no problem identifying people who are citizens and registering them to vote, but are unable to distinhuish between legal residents and illegal immigrants? How is that?

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Kahuna]

I agree that legal immigrants or American born citizens can commit acts of terrorism as well as illegals. The guys who blew up the trains in London were British subjects. Still, there is a danger in having borders that are too open. Legal immigrants and American born terrorists are not likely to be carrying nukes. There are, of course, a lot of ways nukes could be brought in, but I think we are shortsighted if we don't look at our open borders.

 

I disagree that it is not a liberal/conservative issue. Most of the liberals I know favor legalizing illegal immigrants, issuing drivers licenses and giving them the same benefits as citizens. Most of the conservatives I know do not. The unions differ from other liberals in they see a threat to jobs. President Bush has alienated many conservatives because of his stand on immigration. If you listen to conservative talk radio, they are constantly on him about the issue. I do not think the Republican Party as a group favors looser immigration standards and certainly not the moves Hillary favors. The President favors some of those things and doesn't want to say he doesn't favor others. I think he's wrong, but he's the President.

 

A lot of groups and the media is now referring to these illegals as "undocumented aliens," which strikes me as a way to avoid calling them what they are: illegal.

[Prairie_Scouter]

This is a pretty thorny issue. And it's not just about people sneaking across the border from Mexico.

 

In the area of jobs, it's not just illegal immigrants taking resources away from citizens. The expansion of H1-B visas is taking high tech jobs away from citizens as well. Large companies would rather hire cheap overseas labor than keep experienced Americans in these jobs, under the guise of "there aren't enough qualified workers". Look at the demographics of the unemployed in this area and you'll see that that argument is nonsense.

 

Illegal aliens who have made it here are working in jobs most don't want, and are paying local taxes while making use of local resources. They are, in many cases, being treated as slave laborers by those who hire them, because they know they've got them over a barrel. But, many have established families here, partly due to the fact it takes years for immigration status to be argued. Then, when they are deported, they are separated from their families.

 

Do we have a problem with illegal immigration? Yes, but on the other hand, we have a Statue of Liberty that says we welcome those who come to our shores. I don't think the problem is with the immigrants, who are just looking for a better life. It's with the laws and the way they're administered. It would seem that there is a place for these people; it's a matter of getting them properly admitted to the country, rather than have them feel that they have to sneak in. If we were to do that, we might not have these horrific stories of people dying, locked in trailers in the desert near the border, or drowning while trying to cross from Cuba to Florida.

 

Now, if you add in the fear of terrorism, that just escalates the problem and the fear. The problem is, if someone really wants to get in badly enough, and is willing to die to make their point, it's unlikely that the border guards are going to stop them, if for no other reason that they might already live here. There's a delicate balance here. We are a country that prides itself on its freedom of movement and expression, etc. We're gradually losing that in the name of "security", and the more we allow that to happen, the more our enemies have won the game.

[GopherJudy]

I don't understand this either & any topic about illegal immigrants really gets me started! First, all illegal immigrants should be DEPORTED immediately, they are tearing apart this country & bringing it down. I'm tired of seeing signs, especially at DMV, Social Security, etc, in English & Spanish; it should be English only! There are certain areas in Suffolk County that if you go there you don't feel like you're in America, most of the people in the town are illegal immigrants.

 

I don't know if you've heard of "the Farmingville, Long Island Incident". Where 2 men told 2 illegal immigrants that they had a job for them but took them to an empty warehouse & beat them up. I don't condone that but, if they weren't here in this country illegally, that wouldn't have happened to them. There are a lot of illegal immigrants there & across Long Island & you have about 30 or more men waiting on a street corner to be picked up for work. They urinate wherever they feel like it. There are single family homes with 20 to 40 men living in it, there's garbage all over the place, they urinate & deficate in the backyard of the house they are living in. Property values are going down. Their kids go to school but they don't pay any taxes! Some "brain sturgeon" came up with the idea that Suffolk County should build a shelter for these illegal immigrants to wait to be picked up for a job! Excuse me but I don't want my hard earned tax dollars spent to build something for people who are here in this country illegally! That shelter wasn't built & I'm glad. A house that's about a 5 minute walk from my parents' house burned down about 6 months ago! Why, you ask? Because about 20 or more illegal immigrants were living there, in a single family house & who knows what they did. This house was always there, it was one of the model homes before my parents moved here from Brooklyn in 1957. I cried every time I passed the house & thought what the hell is happening to my town & my country. It's being brought down by illegal immigrants. Also, they bring their gangs here too! Now the gangs are moving into the area where I live, they hang out at the Smithaven Mall & other places so I don't even want to go there, especially at night. The illegal immigrant problem & gang problem has gotten worse here on Long Island, even as far as Greenport, on the North Fork of Long Island. Yes, we have people who feel sorry for them & trying to get them legallized which I think is wrong. They need to be deported & as soon as possible.

 

I remember watching "Dateline" & they had a piece on our borders & that pregnant women who are about ready to deliver their babies, walk across the border, the baby is delivered in America & considered an American citizen! That child can go to school here, the parents don't pay a penny for the education of their children & I think they get healthcare here too! This is so wrong. Those babies born here like that ARE NOT American citizens! Someone in the government better get to work on this border problem before America goes down the drain.

 

MY grandparents, my father's parents, came over from Norway in the 1920's, went through Ellis Island & whatever else they had to do. They didn't have anything handed to them, they worked for everything. They learned English by listening to the radio & reading the newspaper, they didn't have things made extra easy for them by having all documents, etc. printed in Norwegian just for them.

 

So back to the original point, if they're "Illegal Immigrants" they are in this country illegally & should be deported the government shouldn't be helping them to stay as it only encourages others to try & sneak into this country.

 

Judy