What about gay parents?

[Rooster7]

TJ,

 

1) I never chose to be gay, I just am.

 

Something every pedophile will tell you as well. Your claim does not justify your embracement of that behavior. Alcoholics dont choose to be alcoholic, but we expect them to control their behavior.

 

2) Your religious view is not a universal religious view, and the BSA "claims" you/they have no right to impose your religious view on others as a condition of membership.

 

No ones views on morality, religious or otherwise, are universally accepted. The BSA has chosen to embrace a set of moral values. Apparently they align with Judeo-Christian beliefs. Regardless, its their choice and I do not believe it violates any Scouts ability to seek religious training outside of the BSA.

 

3) Your other views of homosexuality (non-religious based) are based solely on conjecture and ignorance (i.e. lacking corroborative data).

 

I dont think so. But you are free to believe otherwise. I think the facts and common sense support my position.

 

The convenience of your position is that you can bounce back and forth between using religious and non-religious arguments, and in the end dismiss your opponents as "devilish delusion", just like your Bible has predicted.

 

Convenience or not, a religious based argument does not have to conflict with secular arguments. In fact, I have found that science is very consistent with my Christian faith.

 

When my judgement comes, as you suggest it will, I take comfort in being judged for who and how I loved, and not the opposite. I do wish you well on that day, too.

 

Only God knows your heart. He knows whether or not you have rejected Him or embrace Him. I never implied otherwise. In regard to your wishes, sincere or not, they will have no affect on that day. I will stand before God as someone who has either accepted Him or not.

 

[SemperParatus]

Well, after weeks of successfully ignoring this thread, I finally let curiosity get the best of me.

 

Glad to see that you all are finally reaching a consensus of opinion

[tjhammer]

Semper --- sshhhhh, don't jinx this, I'm really close to bringing Rooster into the light.

 

 

 

Rooster - I'm bewildered by what "behavior I embrace" that has you so uptight. Life with my partner around our house is about as "normal" as it gets, and my "behavior" out in the world is pretty much indistinguishable (at least as far as my sexuality goes... in other ways, I do aspire to be a little distinguished ;-)). The only "behaviour" I can imagine that has you so worried for my soul (and my influence on the world) is what happens in my bedroom. Alas, I regret to inform you that's pretty unremarkable, as well.

 

BTW, your argument is weakened, not strengthened, by lumping me in with predators, self-abusers and the dangerous/reckless. If you try hard enough, surely you'll see the difference between my "sinful behavior" and the parallels you've drawn.

[Rooster7]

Rooster - I'm bewildered by what "behavior I embrace" that has you so uptight.

 

Im sure you already know. Regardless, youre not going to succeed in getting me to reply to it and I think the reasons are obvious.

 

Life with my partner around our house is about as "normal" as it gets, and my "behavior" out in the world is pretty much indistinguishable (at least as far as my sexuality goes... in other ways, I do aspire to be a little distinguished ;-)).

 

Im sorry, but two men deriving sexual pleasure from one another will never to be normal to me.

 

The only "behaviour" I can imagine that has you so worried for my soul (and my influence on the world) is what happens in my bedroom. Alas, I regret to inform you that's pretty unremarkable, as well.

 

If its so unremarkable to you, why do you fight so hard to keep doing it? As to your soul, I worry for you to the degree that I can worry for anyones soul that I might know on a casual basis. If I was a better child of God, Id probably be able to show more compassion. That being the case, the best I can do, is to simply tell you what I know in my heart to be true. Gods law reveals the sin in all of us. Our need for a savior is plain to see. While I have my own sins to be bear, I think you know yours. I dont claim to be better than you. And I dont point to your sin to lessen the appearance of evil in my own life. I fight to show the evil of homosexuality because we have an obligation as Gods children to speak the truth as He has shown it. If you feel that I am not speaking the truth in love then I apologize. Its quite possible that I like to debate more than I like to tell Gods truth and/or show His love. This is perhaps one of my flaws. Regardless, I am convinced that I am speaking the truth. My delivery may be rougher than I care to admit.

 

BTW, your argument is weakened, not strengthened, by lumping me in with predators, self-abusers and the dangerous/reckless. If you try hard enough, surely you'll see the difference between my "sinful behavior" and the parallels you've drawn.

 

The point is not that homosexuals are predators (although, Im sure some are). Read my previous post again. My point is that the claim of inborn attraction, true or not, is not justification for one to act on that attraction. The examples I used, were pedophiles and alcoholics. No matter how inherit their disease, we expect them to control their behavior.

 

[mmhardy]

Jeez Louise...stick a fork in this one will ya. It's done, agree to disagree and move on. Its sinful pride in ones own belief system that being exhibited when when I see endless yammering about this topic.

 

"Sinful pride amounts to fear that we won't be recognized for our imagined greatness. But true humility has no fear."

 

"Gal. 5:26 reads "Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." Sinful pride is the cause of all lies, false teachings and sinful strife. Satan is the father of lies, false teachings and strife. Jn. 8. It is impossible for sinful, human nature not to be puffed up by praise for self."

 

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/bul/trin-17.html

[Rooster7]

mmhardy -

 

I suppose the goal of your post was to lift up and edify. Still, theres a simple solution to your pain. Dont read this thread or post here.

 

[mmhardy]

God Bless You...thanks for the sage advice. TTFN!

[Fuzzy Bear]

mmhardy,

 

I have a suspicion that TTFN is not a blessing.

 

"But true humility has no fear. It trusts that God will provide, in His mercy, whatever is necessary." Harold Bul

 

Mr. Bul's message is clear and welcome. Thanks for sharing.

 

Please accept that beating the dead horse is more of an art form here.

 

FB

[Prairie_Scouter]

Fuzzy,

 

TTFN is just an oldey, but a goody, that means "tah tah for now", ie, see you later

[OldGreyEagle]

Cuz bouncin' is what Tigers do best!

[evmori]

tj,

I've been on vacation & just got back. Couple of questions.

 

When did you realize you were gay?

 

How did you realize you were gay?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

Ed, what will be gained by TJ's answer to your two questions? He merely stated that he did not 'choose', but that he merely 'is' gay. The only reason for further interrogation that I can identify is that the interrogator doesn't believe TJ's statement. Your opinion on this is already clear and in conflict with his statement. Here's the problem:

1)If you believe TJ's statement, then the two questions are gratuitous and needlessly intrusive.

2)If you do not believe his statement, then why would you believe his answers to your further questions and, therefore, why ask them in the first place?

 

Is there any chance that his answers will change your opinion? If yes, I congratulate you. If not, why belabor this?

[evmori]

pack,

Gain? I hope to gain a better insight into why tj is a homosexual. Is there something wrong with that? Is searching for more information a bad thing?

 

I have no motive other than what I stated. How will I respond to tj's answers will be your next question. My answer is "I don't know".

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr]

I did not choose to be fat. I just am. I was fat coming out of the womb, I was the fattest kid in my grade school class, and I am still fat at age 50. I eat a balanced diet and in no more quantity than those around me. I do not have six Whoppers at a sitting. In fact, I don't have them at all. I have dieted, exercised and prayed for deliverance from my affliction, since it causes me to violate the Scout Oath (physically fit) and be a poor "role model", although I am generally a good person otherwise. I tried the new "diet drugs" and they damn near killed me. I have concluded that being fat is in my genes, just like diabetes, high cholesterol, skin color, and high blood pressure are in some other people.

 

I hope I don't get drummed out of Scouting and burn in eternal damnation because of it.

[GernBlansten]

I didn't choose to be hetero, I just am. I'm not attracted to men or boys in a sexual way whatsoever. I doubt I could be trained or swayed to. Thinking about how two men might copulate gives me the same willies as someone scratching their fingernails on a chalk board. Just ain't natural for me. But I don't cast judgement on those who might be that way. Live and let live is my motto. What's a motto with you?