What about gay parents?

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, another way of reading Matt's comment is that he does understand the verse he was using, and simply was using it to make the point that the Bible is open to interpretation, and sometimes isn't meant to be taken literally (although some do take that view).

 

Scholars don't all agree on what the Bible says. According to some histories, entire "books" were left out of it. Judaism doesn't recognize any of the New Testament. There are some who say that translations are wrong, and meanings misinterpreted. There are, what, 3000 translations of the Bible available today? The various "Good Books" out there have been used to justify all sort of terrible things, all done in the name of God. And yet, religious groups all over the world make their own interpretations, and proclaim that there's is the only truly correct one. Heck, even the verses used to create an anti-gay agenda aren't all that clear, really.

[matthillnc]

Thank you Prairie_Scouter! The Bible is interpreted by many different people to mean many different things. And yes, I do study the Bible, I just don't pick out verses here and there. I am actually going to Episcopal/Anglican seminary after my undergraduate work to study Church History and Theology.

 

When I read James 5:12, I hear... "Don't take any oaths, just say yes or no, let your yes be yes and your no be no... tell the truth and do not take oaths. Just tell the plain old truth."

 

I believe this so firmly that when I am "sworn" into Student Government possitions I do not take their oath... I simply affirm my truth. That is what the verse is telling us to do, in my opinion anyway: Affirm your turht... there is no need to swear it.

 

The Bible is open to interpretation, different people see it different ways and the verse from James has proven this point within this Forum. Do any of you study the Bible? There is more to the verses concerning homosexuality than what meets the eye. I suggest you check it out and study it.

 

MATT HILL

[Prairie_Scouter]

Hi Matt,

 

I'm certainly no expert, and not one to make use of Biblical verse very often, but I have, now and again, read books about the Bible as a "piece of history" rather than "the word of God". What I've read about the "gay verses" goes something like this. At the time some those verses were written, it was common practice in Greek culture to take young boys as sexual partners, and it was this particular practice that was being commented on by the writers. The references to Sodom have been interpreted as meaning other things than homosexual behavior. I find it particularly interesting that it seems that in the original languages of the Bible, ie, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, at the time of most of the writings, there apparently wasn't a word that corresponded to "homosexual". So, somebody's been doing some "interpreting" somewhere

[evmori]

Sure the Bible is open to interpretation. But interpreting James 5:12 to mean it's a sin to take any oath other than to God is absurd! I would hate to see how Matt interprets Proverbs 4:7 or any other verse for that fact. Unbelievable!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[matthillnc]

Thank you, once again, for your comments Prairie Scouter!

 

I looked up Proverbs 4:7.... To me, it seems that in the Book of Proverbs Wisdom and Understanding are important, it is stressed quite often.

 

Wisdom and Understanding areimportant if one is to live with humanity. We must all gain knowledge and understanding of ourselves and each other and the world around us. Doing so helps us to understand where others might be coming from, even though we may not agree, and teaches us how to love each other despite our differences.

 

Proverbs 4:7 is simply saying, Get Wisdom and after you get Wisdom (i.e. book knowledge), get understanding (i.e. how to apply that book knowledge in your life).

 

How do you interpret it Ed?

[evmori]

Wisdom is #1. The most important. Wisdom leads to understanding.

 

Matt,

I'm surprised you you didn't interpret "though it cost you all you have" as meaning "spend all your money". That would have been in line with your interpretation of James 5:12

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[matthillnc]

Ed,

 

I don't know which Proverbs 4:7 you are looking at... mine says:

 

"Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

 

If your version says, "though it cost you all you have," that could mean many different things. Yes, of course, money, but someitmes the cost of doing something is losing one's friends, family, home, etc. Not always about money... And if the verse is talking about money... then maybe it is just a prediction of how high college tuition would be in 2005. LOL... I am spending all money and more for wisdom and understanding, in fact, I'll be about $20,000 in debt after my second year of college.

 

I'm not going to debate the Bible with you.... I don't know how this conversation become so nasty in this Forum.... It started off okay and we all stayed on topic... the topic of Gay Parents.... now we have just strayed way too far. Its time for this thread to be over with.

 

 

 

 

[Rooster7]

Get Wisdom and after you get Wisdom (i.e. book knowledge), get understanding (i.e. how to apply that book knowledge in your life).

 

Matt,

 

I realize that you dont want to debate the Bible, but let me clear up one thing. Wisdom the Wisdom described in the Bible, has nothing to do with book knowledge. It is about seeking Gods Will, knowing our relationship with Him, and discerning His expectations for us.

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, Matt, I'd say that if one of the "books" you're talking about is the Bible, then you and Rooster are right on "the same page", as they say.

 

As has pretty much always been true with the Bible, there are plenty who "know" what the Bible says, and will state such things as fact. The reality, I think, is that what they are really expressing is their *belief* that the Bible is interpreted a certain way in their religious view.

 

I find it all very interesting, actually, if you look at this from outside of a religious construct. You have a historical document that is the basis for many of the world's religions. This document is interpreted different ways to support different religious views. The document itself is a selective compilation of ancient texts that was done hundreds of years after their writing. The documents were written in several languages, and the translations of these languages to modern terms is a subject of ongoing discussion in the academic community. There are something like 3000 translations of the Bible currently available. With all this in mind, I find it very interesting that there are groups who's belief systems are based, in part, on the turn of a word here or there. I'm not saying that any of these beliefs are wrong or misguided, just that I find it interesting how people see what they want to see. When you're dealing with belief systems, facts don't really come into play.

 

How does this relate to the topic? Well, BSA says that gays are not good role models. Those in charge believe that, but you don't seem them backing that up with anything. It just is. It's when you start asking "why?" that things get a little dicey.

[packsaddle]

Cautiously backing away from the engineering perspective and...accidentally bumping into statistics:

'Normal' has a very clear meaning and has to do with the distribution of the residuals about the mean. However, if one examines the idea carefully, there is nothing, NOTHING, in nature that is normally distributed. Normal, then would be abnormal in this world.

[stlscouter]

..and if common sense is common why don't more people have it?

 

Anybody else have the BIBLE version that states in Proverbs 10:13"...and the stupid should be beat with a stick"? OT, sorry.

[ozemu]

Now that's pretty funny. That is a bible I could read.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I disagree with STLS, it means "beat with a cane". This verse does not imply how severely or how often either. I suppose it is left up to one's own imagination.

 

What about all of the other sins such as, greed, murder, stealing, lying, adultery, forgery, etc., etc., etc. The BSA should not leave out all of the other sins, since the intent is to recruit leaders that are moral role models. I am left to believe that atheists and homosexuals are simply hot button issues and all of the others are acceptable stealth behaviors.

 

If we only stone the woman caught doing it, then how many must we stone before we finally kill all that are guilty? New translation, old parable.

 

FB

[Rooster7]

Fuzzy Bear,

 

Youre missing the point. Homosexuals are trying to legitimize their sin. They are not trying to changetheyre embracing their sin. While it is certainly possible some adulterers feel the same way, I dont know of any activist groups that trying to put pressure on the BSA.

 

[stlscouter]

I must apologize to the forum-

 

I am new to the forum and without throughly reading all of the posts from earlier this year I didn't realize that some of my earlier postings had already run their course in earlier threads and had been addressed in great detail. Sorry!

 

stlscouter