The Ten Commandments Can Stay On Public Lands!

[ehcalum]

No memorial to Texas Ribs or BBQ? For shame! That is very ilksome.

[evmori]

Never said I didn't love you as a person, Merlyn. I just don't agree with you! What's your opinion on the recent SCOTUS ruling?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

Can you feel the love tonight .........

[gavvin]

I can already imagine the responses I will get to this, but here I go...

 

I think that the posting of the Ten Commandments on govt. buildings and/or property is wrong. I applaud the SCOTUS decision to remove them from the courthouse and am disappointed that they can remain on other govt. property. The reasons for my feelings are many:

 

1) Those that wish them posted make the argument that they are the basis for our system of laws. I disagree. According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system), our system of laws is based on Roman law, which admittedly, came after the 10 Commnadments, but bears little resemblance to them. In fact, It is more like the Code of Hammurabi http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM

Of the 10 Commandments, at least 4 are purely religious and of the other 6, only 3 are against the law in the USA and then only in certain circumstances. 3 out of 10 is hardly a basis for our entire legal system.

 

2) In my mind, posting such a document in a courthouse sends a message to all who do not follow the Judeo-Christian Bible that possibly justice is reserved only for Believers.

 

3) Assuming that neither of the above are true, which version of the 10 Commandments do you post? Accoring to www.religioustolerance.org , "There are three versions of the Ten Commandments in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). They are at Exodus 20:2-17, Exodus 34:12-26, and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Exodus 20 is the most commonly used set. However, some faith groups may promote one of the other versions.

 

There are more than 10 verses in the Exodus 20 version. Jews, Protestants and Roman Catholics have selected different formats for combining the 16 verses into 10 Commandments. A government or public school board may be entering a religious mine field when it attempts to reach a consensus on exactly what version and format to select."

 

There are, of course, other problems with translations. Did God order us not to kill or not to commit murder? Shades of meaning in the original Hebrew translate to very different concepts in English.

 

4) If, after all of the above, you still feel that the 10 Commandments belong on govt. property, ask yourself how you would feel if the Wiccan Rede was posted alongside it. The Rede is the Wiccan version of the 10 Commandments (in that it is a guide on how to live) and reads, "An it harm none, do as ye will."

 

After all, if one religious document can be posted on government property, it stands to reason that others can too.

 

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Originally, I had written here a long message for all those who, after reading the above, wanted to question my faith, patriotism, honor, etc. Then I realized that those who are going to flame me will do so anyway and the rest of you didn't need to read it.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Oh, I think the supreme court came up with another muddled, bad decision, Ed; Trevorum and gavvin listed a lot of good reasons why.

 

Of course, since the TX monument was erected to PROMOTE A MOVIE (Cecil B. DeMille's "The Ten Commandments"), we'll see if American Atheists (or a Texas group like Metroplex Atheists) are refused permission to erect a monument, too.

[evmori]

Of course, since the TX monument was erected to PROMOTE A MOVIE (Cecil B. DeMille's "The Ten Commandments"), we'll see if American Atheists (or a Texas group like Metroplex Atheists) are refused permission to erect a monument, too.

 

You guys making a movie?

[Rooster7]

Synonyms for Ilk type, like, sort, kind, class, breed, manner.

 

 

If my professed beliefs arouse the condemnation of atheists and others that seek to deny God or portray Him as something hes not, Im probably doing something right. Now, thats not an insult or a compliment. Its just what the Bible told me to expect.

 

In short, you and your ilk, are free to believe as you wish. Me, and my ilk, will do fine with or without your approval. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[evmori]

For the record, I am part of Rooster's ilk!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

[some] see nothing wrong with using governmental power to push your religious views. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[evmori]

 

 

And neither do [others]! (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Trevorum]

gavin, Good points. But the Rede isn't a document comparable to the 10C; it's religious tradition only. That's part of the problem, of course. Many religious traditions do not have holy scriptures in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense (indeed, that is why these tribes are referred to as "People of the Book"). Maybe we could put up a fat Buddha next to the Ten Commandments. [FWIW, the Rede is celebrated elsewhere in Austin, "the pagan capital of Texas".]

 

In any event, your point #2 is the crux of the matter for me. I'm not all that upset that the 10C monument will remain - it is situated in a parklike setting 100 m or more from the actual capitol building and is not all that intimidating (or even noticeable). However, the same could not be said for the courthouse displays (especially Judge Moore's infamous behemoth) which would certainly seem to give governmental imprimatur to the message that some religions are more acceptable than others.

 

The political history of our country is inextricably intertwined with religion, as it is with race. Our money, our buildings, our oaths,

all have grandfathered religious remnants of a time when the country did not value diversity and justice for all to the degree that we do today. I feel we should recognize the historical roots of these symbols and not necessarily expunge them in revisionism. At the same time, let's certainly not perpetuate the oppressiveness of a state sanctioned religion. I think the SCOTUS ruling tried for a balance between these two extremes.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I've stated before that the government should be neutral. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Hunt]

From what I read, the Supreme Court didn't really change the current state of the law on the 10 Commandments. They'll rule a display unconstitutional if its main purpose is to promote religion. The irony is that if a bunch of religious groups now rush out to erect monuments on public land exactly like the one in Texas, they'll probably be ruled unconstitutional under these decisions. In fact, it will be very difficult for religious groups to take advantage of the decisions at all, at least if they are willing to be honest about their motives.

[packsaddle]

Hunt, if I read your interpretation correctly, a situation where a religious group attempts to place a monument will almost by definition fail the test after this decision. Did I get that right?

An interesting experiment - a biker gang attempts to erect a giant menorah... you know, sometimes its just hard to come up with this stuff. I'm much happier with the occasions when hundreds flock from miles around to pray at a stand of Kudzu that looks like Jesus. OK by me as long as that's not public kudzu.

[johndaigler]

hey, all,

 

Sorry for heavy "staff member editing". This thread is going along great, except for some of the "I got you, last" play. Since Moderators do not get paid "by the edit" (Which reminds me, Terry . . . ) I'd prefer not to work so hard on any one thread.

 

Please play nice.

 

I don't get why it's so important to keep/put God in our government and the governed portion of our lives. Time and again God is allowed - only if it's in a place of unimportance. God's OK on coins, cuz who ever really looks at the coins once you've figured out what size they are. God is OK on public grounds - as long as it's not a religious setting. God is OK in our public meetings - as long as it's not really a prayer. If I was God, I'd be getting a little irked with the whole thing!!

 

I don't think it can be argued that God has different value to each of us. Why don't we leave God to families and Churches - I think God might like that more than the present situation. That is, if God worried about such things as what humans think.

 

jd

[evmori]

jd,

While I respect your position as moderator, the edits you made did nothing but water down what was posted. I feel since this is an Issues & Politics forum, there should be more latitude given than other forums.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10