Hunt Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I oppose the amendment as well. I don't think we honor American ideals by giving the American people less freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1973 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I oppose the ban on flag burning. Here's why: It gives an outlet to those with an opinion, without that outlet, they may go underground and you don't know what their recourse might be. It identifies who they are. Also, there are other laws on the books for instance, open burning laws, trespassing laws, and even the EPA prob has ways to get at these folks since most flags or nylon and will release noxious fumes that will polute and contribute to global warning... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I was thinking when I saw the news on TV: "Thank God I won't have to fight my way thru the flag-burning hordes everytime I walk the streets." I really think we have bigger issues in this country for the legislatures to worry about than flag burning. I have served under that flag during wartime, wear it on my uniform and proudly fly it at my home, but for some nutjob protester to burn it means absolutely nothing, IMHO. We should be amending the Constitution for only dire situations and not for problems that aren't problems. If it gets thru the Senate, it will probably be ratified and the same politicians who are out there calling each other names will be breaking their arms patting themselves on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 While we're at it, let's allow the burning of the original U.S. Constitution by anyone that wants to make a statement...afterall, its just a piece of paper (and not a bald eagle)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Semper, Yes, it is already illegal to burn the original copy of the constitution as it is a historical artifact. Like burning the Betsy Ross flag. It isn't mine to burn. But you bring up a good point. Could I burn my own copy of the constitution in protest? Could I burn my copy of a portrait of Ronald Reagen? What national symbols should we protect with this ammendment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I remember my dad saying that he was a flag burner from 'way back. Of course what he was referring to were retirement ceremonies. I fact, the only people I know who burn flags are Boy Scouts. If this passes, what would we do? It's not like Boy Scouts can just toss a tattered Old Glory into the trash. However, I honestly don't think this bill is serious legislation - it is mere political posturing for the masses. As Kahuna points out, we don't really have a problem that needs fixing. Even if passed by the Senate, this issue would never be ratified by the states. (Unlike say, the Equal Rights Ammendment which was for the benefit of fully 50% of Americans. Oh, wait. That didn't pass the states either. Never mind.) Nonetheless, this bill does provide a delicious starting point to examine and debate the issues of free speech in a post 9/11 America. Debate and discussion is always good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Gern, excellent point. My understanding is that, to some people, to be stepped upon with shoes is a greater insult than burning. If this become law, would it be OK to hit the flag with ones shoes? How about waving shoes at the flag? Spitting on the flag? Should we jail those people? How about just threatening to burn the flag? Or just saying nasty things about the flag? My opinion is that free speech must be 100% free or else it is not really free. I am even uncomfortable with not being able to say nasty things about our president without getting the FBI involved. But I'll accept that limitation (asterisked fine print to our right to free speech) along with the reasonable limitation of not shouting "fire!" (either in a crowded theatre or on a rifle range!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1973 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Let's shelve this one and talk about what the Supreme Court just did about property rights. I guess if a Council has choice piece of land on a river/lake/scenic area etc, the local government can take it, turn it over to a developer and have condos built on it.... just stirring the pot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 This proposed amendment is indeed a slippery slope. It does not address burning. It addresses desecration. That can be interpreted in a very broad way. Cutting, tearing, wearing, spitting on, walking on, etc. It is purely for political posturing. It is an attempt to once again remind everyone who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. It is really surprising to me that the party who stands for less government is the one that keeps bringing up all of these hot point amendment proposals. Remember all the talk about a marriage amendment. Voting for this gives the congressman bragging rights about how patriotic and caring the are and how evil and treasonous their counterparts are. Thes kind of things are easy to vote for and you get to look good for doing it. Hows about we tackle things like open borders and national security instead? We have just had the supreme court declare that you can have your land taken out from under you so commercial interests can build there. First the Patriot Act, now having your property siezed and next the government taking away your freedom of expression. Is this really the government and nation we want? Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I was in town getting some supplies. A firetruck came screaming by with lights and siren. Big American flag streaming proudly from a staff in the middle of the truck. I thought, hmmmmm, would that be desecration? Should flags decorate our vehicles? Is it OK on a firetruck? How about the redneck with it in the back of his pickup going 85MPH down the highway? How about the realtor who drives around my neighborhood putting little American flags on every mail box before the 4th of July. Half of those get blown down or trashed. Or the first year scout doing a flag ceremony and accidently drops the staff. Should he be prosecuted? Would we need to call the authorities to get an opinion? Sure, I would like to see our flag treated with more respect. I don't think we need an ammendment to our constitution to do it. Perhaps just some education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted June 24, 2005 Author Share Posted June 24, 2005 Kahuna, nice visual, LOL. Can we even calculate the $$ already spent by Congress on this? Can you imagine the cost if it gets to the state ratification process? jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I'm still trying to figure out what burning a flag has to do with freedom of speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 An amendment to our constitution is an admission that we made a mistake when it was originally written. Did our founders really make a boo-boo about how we run our country? What does "flag desecration" have to do with running our country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Did our founders really make a boo-boo about how we run our country? Hmmm. Are you inferring that the Constitution was perfect as written? What is your opinion of other admendments? I don't think your approach to this debate is going to garner much support, especially among women (just to name a few). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 evmori, I think I can shed some light on the freedom of speech. Consider it "expression" not speech. People who burn the flag, do so as a protest against America. Its a form of speech or expression. Not a popular expression nor one I would like to see my children doing, but it is protected by the Constitution, and confirmed by the Supreme Court. Hence the need for the ammendment. The constitution as it stands allows for freedom of expression, no matter how repulsive the majority thinks it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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