So, What's so bad about being gay?

[Prairie_Scouter]

Well, as someone above said, I think we might have wrung this one out, at least as far as the original question is concerned.

 

While you're, of course, welcome to continue on, I want to thank everyone for their participation in this thread. I don't know that we reached any sort of conclusions, really, but the conversation has been for the most part civil, and certainly interesting.

 

And with that, I'm gonna hit the sack. 'Night all.

[evmori]

Sorry pack. Still don't buy the theory of evolution. Nice try, though.

 

I have to question why an organization like NAMBLA is even allowed to exist! Isn't having sexual relations with an underage youth a crime? And isn't that what they advocate?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Prairie_Scouter]

Ed,

Unless you're a Biblical literalist, don't you think it's possible to reconcile the theory of evolution with many religious beliefs?

[whitewater]

I've seen several posters remark that homosexuality is immoral and others seem to think that there is nothing wrong with it. I think another way to look at is whether or not homosexuality is normal. The people who believe that homosexuality is OK also tend to believe that it is an inate trait- something people are born with. The others tend to believe that it is nothing more than a behavior.

 

It should be noted that, despite some people's best efforts, there has never been a biological component of homosexuality identified. There are also groups that still consider homosexuality to be abnormal behavior that can be treated- NARTH is an example of one. They believe that the American Psychiatric Association caved to political pressure when they removed homosexuality from their list of mental disorders. There are also organizations of ex-gaysalthough I admit I don't know much about them or how many there are.

[evmori]

Prairie,

I'm not a Biblical literalist and I don't believe we (humans) evolved from animals. In the Bible, God created man from dust. Nowhere does it state God grabbed a monkey made it a man.

 

So in answer to your question, no.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ehcalum]

Not trying to start anything here, but techinally humans did not evolve from apes. We both has a common ancestor. Also by stating that because it is not mentione din the Bible, it didn't happen, so doesnt that make you a Bible literalist?

[Eagledad]

>>They believe that the American Psychiatric Association caved to political pressure when they removed homosexuality from their list of mental disorders.

[fgoodwin]

DugN complains that NAMBLA doesn't represent typical or average homosexuals; that's a common reply, but in fact, I never made that claim.

 

He says boys are no more at risk of abuse from homosexuals than they are from teachers, coaches or baby-sitters. I then pointed out a key difference is that teachers, coaches and baby-sitters are not organizing to seduce boys, as homosexual pederasts have done in the form of NAMBLA.

 

So, ignore NAMBLA if you want. But the following cannot be so easily ignored. GLSEN is distributing a pornographic "how-to" guide to middle-school and high-school age youth in Massachusetts:

 

(PM Fgoodwin for the link)

 

I looked at the contents of the book itself (CAUTION: VERY GRAPHIC MATERIAL):

 

(PM Fgoodwin for the link)

 

(PM Fgoodwin for the link)

 

(I apologize for posting a direct link to this, but I have to to let others look and decide for themselves what the gay-lobby is up to)

 

The instructions and pictures are graphic enough -- but the question I have for the pro-gay crowd is:

 

Why give a middle-school boy a list of gay bars? Some comments reads: "young guys and those who like young guys"; "sex-charged late at night"; "porn on the television"; "the old, the young"; etc.

 

I ask you: if the purpose of this book isn't to bring "chickens" to the "chicken-hawks", then what's it for? Please explain to me why an alleged "educational piece" needs to include this info? And then please explain to me how this doesn't represent mainstream gays, but only a fringe like NAMBLA?

 

I think this is clear evidence of the homosexual agenda, and why we need to keep them as far away from our boys as possible.

 

Again, I apologize to the group for the graphic nature of the material cited above. But if it causes you any concern, you might ask yourself, why in the world was GLSEN allowed to distribute this material in the first place? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[DugNevius]

haha well then, Fgoodwin, im sure that you are aware that Panzerfaust records, a Neo Nazi record label from minn tried to dostribute CDs of Racist and anti-semetic material in school.

 

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/hatecds.htm

 

I guess this is evidence that mainstream Caucasians are anti-semetic and hate minorities.

[tjhammer]

Ed Mori says: I propose we answer with "So, What's so good about being gay?"Ed, are you asking for a sales pitch? Dang it, I'm sure I have a pamphlet around here somewhere... sorry I'm not on the Recruiting Committee so I don't normally stock these things. Maybe if I submit your nomination they can mail you something? Or maybe just drop by with a PowerPoint presentation, I'm pretty sure we have representatives in your neighborhood.

 

With all those draw backs Trevorum listed, it does make you wonder why smart, stable folks keep choosing to be gay though, doesn't it? I think that's covered in the PowerPoint... it's been a while since I sat through the presentation and bought in (as I recall back then they were giving away an ice chest that you could plug into the car just for sitting through the presentation).

[fgoodwin]

DN: "Godwin's Law"

 

 

[Hunt]

I think that this is an intractable issue, because two opposite viewpoints seem "obvious" to the people who hold them. Not too long in the past, only one of those viewpoints seemed obvious.

 

Today, it is "obvious" to everybody that slavery is a terrible injustice and morally wrong. Not so long ago there was a large portion of the American public to whom this was not obvious, and in the ancient world it was obvious to everybody that slavery was just a fact of life. To my mind, this shift in viewpoint is progress.

 

But this is not necessarily to say that all such shifts are progress. Really, you can't say with certainty whether a shift in public acceptance is good or bad. For example, I would say that the shift in acceptance of divorce is bad--others would disagree.

 

So just because more people now than 50 years ago think homosexuality is OK doesn't mean that it is OK in a cosmic sense, and it also doesn't mean that the trend will inevitably continue in the same direction. (Look at what happened with views about drinking alcohol in this country.)

[DugNevius]

Oh please. Why is it that you can take a minority that is to the extreme and use it to represent a larger group? Your example is no different then mine. It would be no different if i used Catholic priests that molest alter boys as an example of why all catholic priests are evil. Your "Goodwin's Law" reply is a joke. Your argument using Nambla or that group is known as a fallacy of weak induction, specifically Hasty Generalization. It is invalid. As invalid as saying white people hate minorites and Priests are child abusers.

 

Come up with something better.

[tjhammer]

Now see, I go and make a joke about a pamphlet, and one pos up before I can hit submit. :-)

 

Just for some perspective, quick research around the web will clarify that pamphlet that fgoodwin mentions was NOT published or distributed by the high school or the GLSEN.

 

It looks like that was a pamphlet designed by the Massachusetts AIDS Action Committee and distributed mostly through local bars to help with AIDS prevention and promote safer sex.

 

It appears the high school was hosting a national convention for GLSEN (the organization that sponsors the Gay Straight Alliance programs in high schools), and lots of presentations and pamphlets from lots of different organizations were distributed on how to make schools a safer place for gay and lesbian kids. Soeone probably contacted the AIDS Action Committee and asked for handouts, and ill-advised this was what was brought over.

 

This one brochure was probably laying around the conference along with lots of other publications, and instead of acknowledging all the efforts that went on at this conference (XXXX://XXX.XXXXXX.XXX/XXXXXX.XXX), the Christian activist decided to disingenuously claim this was an event specifically to distribute a guide to sex and local bars to all the kids in the school.

 

For the record, a guide to local bars should not be distributed, laying around or otherwise available at a high school, and the intended audience of that pamphlet when produced was clearly not high school students. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[fgoodwin]

DN: I doubt if GLSEN would agree with your characterization of them as an extremist group.

 

Setting aside the issue of whether one can generalize from one or two examples, the fact remains, a generally recognized gay-advocacy group is spreading pro-gay literature to middle and high-school age boys, with addresses and recommendations to visit various gay bars in the Boston area.

 

I close by noting that you don't refute the facts about what GLSEN did in Boston, or the contents of the booklet they distributed.