ACLU to BSA: Heads We Win - Tails You Lose

[firstpusk]

"If public schools teach the theory of evolution they should be allowed to teach creationism, too. But that isn't the case because of the supposed separation of church & state."

 

Evolution is science. Creationism is not science. Creationism is not even good theology. If you want your child taught creationism, do it at home or at your church.

[evmori]

I don't lie Merlyn.

[packsaddle]

firstpusk beat me to it. Dang!

Anyway, evolution and creationism can both be taught but in separate classes. Evolution would be in a science class and creationism in a class along with all the other myths.

 

And I thought there are BSA documents in which BSA claims to be a religious organization. Have I misread something?

 

And when the government gives exclusive access to a religious organization that does not allow gay people to enter the government facility, then gay people (or any other excluded people) do not have equal access.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes:

I don't lie Merlyn.

 

Sure you do, Ed. Here's what you said just before:

 

You have no interest in anything but the destruction of the BSA! Why? Because it's popular!

 

That's a lie.

 

And if I recollect from my grade school history, our founding fathers left their native lands for America because of people like you! People who wanted to take away their religious freedom!

 

And that's a lie.

 

Stop lying, Ed. Discuss the issues if you can, but when you deliberately lie about my positions on the issues, I'll simply call you a liar and SHOW you where you lied.

[CA_Scouter]

From Meryln's post:

 

"You have no interest in anything but the destruction of the BSA! Why? Because it's popular! "

 

"That's a lie. "

 

No, Meryln, that's an 'opinion'.

 

 

 

"And if I recollect from my grade school history, our founding fathers left their native lands for America because of people like you! People who wanted to take away their religious freedom! "

 

"And that's a lie. "

 

That is also an 'opinion'. ( what dictionary are you reading from??? )

 

In my opinion, this is a situation where you twist the meaning of a word to suit and/or inflame your argument, because you cannot bolster it with facts and logic. This is typical liberal heck-raising, tabloid type, inflammatory tactics.

 

Meryln, opinions are like bellybuttons. Nobody cares about your bellybutton, and you don't care about mine. It doesn't matter if its an 'inny' or an 'outey', you and I can debate the merits of each, call each other names and be generally obnoxious, BUT, they are still just bellybuttons!

 

And, by nature of the definition of the word, you cannot tell me my opinion is wrong. After all, its MY bellybutton, and mine alone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kahuna]

You guys (Fuzzy Bear and packsaddle) have a much more optimistic view than I do of how likely it is that we would ever have a tax system in this country that is anything like truly fair to all! :-) As long as there is a liberal element in government and a conservative element in government, there will always be tax breaks for somebody. Maybe if they were all Libertarians . . . well, probably not even then.

 

Tongue firmly in cheek . . .

[Prairie_Scouter]

CA,

I think that it's a stretch to think that liberals have a monopoly on "heck-raising, tabloid type, inflammatory tactics".

 

How long a list of conservative tactics would you like to see that fit that stereotype?

 

We could start with the tactics of the Bush campaign in Carolina in 2000.......

 

And continue on to the justification of the Iraq War.......

 

And include statements about how awful the liberal Democrats are for attempting to block 10 of the Presidents judicial nominations......

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

CA_scouter writes:

From Meryln's post:

 

"You have no interest in anything but the destruction of the BSA! Why? Because it's popular! "

 

"That's a lie. "

 

No, Meryln, that's an 'opinion'.

 

No, Ed made a false statement about my motives. What my motives ARE is a fact, even though I'm the only one who knows for sure what they actually ARE. Information hidden to other people don't become "opinions", they are simply unknown. And falsely abscribing to ME what MY opinions are is ridiculously arrogant, and I will call people liars when they do this (as I did Hunt in an earlier thread).

 

If you want to KNOW what my opinion is, you need to see what I write, or ask me what my opinion is. If you simply make up false crap and tell me that's my opinion, I'll just call you what you are - a liar.

 

"And if I recollect from my grade school history, our founding fathers left their native lands for America because of people like you! People who wanted to take away their religious freedom! "

 

"And that's a lie. "

 

That is also an 'opinion'.

 

Same as above - what I "want" to do is a fact, even though it's a fact only I know.

[evmori]

CA,

You beat me to the punch! You are exactly correct. Those are my opinions.

 

Merlyn,

Your motives are only fact to you. And why are your motives hidden? And why is what you want to do known only to you?

 

Opinions are not lies. You might not like them & you might not agree with them. But all that means is we have a difference of opinion.

 

As I have stated before - I don't lie.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

CA, here's my advice: if you run across two people beating each other on the head with hammers, don't volunteer to referee. At this point, I'm just scrolling past exchanges between Ed and Merlyn, because they're just flaming each other.

[CA_Scouter]

Yea, Hunt, I see what you mean. Now I'm the one being flamed!

 

I think I'll go back to working on my troop's program.... that's where I should be putting my effort...

 

 

 

 

 

[firstpusk]

"firstpusk beat me to it. Dang!

Anyway, evolution and creationism can both be taught but in separate classes. Evolution would be in a science class and creationism in a class along with all the other myths.

 

And I thought there are BSA documents in which BSA claims to be a religious organization. Have I misread something?

 

And when the government gives exclusive access to a religious organization that does not allow gay people to enter the government facility, then gay people (or any other excluded people) do not have equal access."

 

Kneejerk reaction on my part I assure you. If we were sitting around a real campfire you would have seen my lips smacking just before jumping in. I agree with you that creationism (in its many varied forms) could be discussed in a philosophy or comparative religion class. That is not what the folks supporting creationism want. They need creationism in science classes to confuse students.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes:

Your motives are only fact to you.

 

No, my motives are a FACT. They are unknowable to you, but that does not make them "not-a-fact".

 

And why are your motives hidden?

 

EVERYONE'S motives are "hidden" in the sense I used the term - people can't read each others' minds.

[evmori]

No, my motives are a FACT. They are unknowable to you, but that does not make them "not-a-fact".

 

Ahh! The unknowable fact!

 

motive - An emotion, desire, physiological need, or similar impulse that acts as an incitement to action.

 

Yep unknowable!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

As the analogy has already been used, Ed, Merlyn, post either on the topic of the ACLU or PM each other to continue your hammer attacks. Any more direct messages to each other on this thread will be erased, you may comment on the topic, but not each other