D&D and scouts.

[eaglescout2004]

I stand corrected: Scouts is about BOTH fun and advancement. Both are important to the program, but a scout need not to excell in advacement to be considered a good scout.

[schleining]

Ok eaglescout2004 you and I will agree on that. A Scout does not have to excel at advancement to be a good Scout.. and I'll add; have fun at Scouting.

Now I will say that if the PLC and Troop Committee have a solid program the Scout will have fun and advance at the same time. Advancement is the individual Scouts responsibility, but the Troop program has a way of stearing the young man in the right direction.

 

To link it all back to the topic- D&D should not be a part of the Troop program.

 

Jerry

[Trevorum]

schleining said, "D&D should not be a part of the Troop program."

 

I don't see why not. If the PLC includes it as a program element, who's to say differently?

 

For example, several months ago, one of our patrols gave a program about card games. They broke into groups with each group learning a different card game (no gambling with money of course).

 

We've also had programs about skateboarding, gunpowder, and video gaming. These topics aren't outdoor skills and they don't have merit badges, but they are what boys are interested in.

[tortdog]

>These topics aren't outdoor skills and they don't have merit badges, but they are what boys are interested in.

 

Sounds to me like yall might be interested in Varsity or Crew, where it was created around specialized programs. I did not know that the troops were geared for this. I am not sure the troop should start concentrating on activities that do not help in advancement.

[Trevorum]

tortdog, that not all they do of course. They also have programs on 1st Aid, orienteering, wilderness survival, backpacking, cooking, firebuilding, etc. My point was that if a patrol wanted to present a program on D&D, it shouldn't necessarily be rejected out of hand. Some of those off-the-wall topics are fun now and again and keep the fellows interested.

[timberscout]

It has been a long time since I have played or even thought about D&D, in fact about 20 years ago when I was a Boy Scout myself and D&D was a new game. Most of our troop played during free time on troop level campouts by candle light, and it was also played every PLC meeting (held at a scouts house) after business was taken care of, usually an all night or weekend game.

 

I think that like most things it could be abused, at which point you deal with the behavior, until then have fun.

 

[madkins007]

Here is what *I* have learned so far from this thread...

 

"Scouts is about advancement. All activities should be advancement centered." (paraphrased from several posts)

 

I'm going to go off on a bit of a rant about this issue- forgive me, please!

 

Advancement IS NOT what Scouting is about, and any unit that puts advancement front and center is making a TERRIBLE mistake! Boy Scouts is about learning and doing new things, and personal growth. We recognize SOME of this growth with advancement.

 

Scouts should not take the Computer MB to earn a patch or to fill a dead slot in a schedule- they should take it because it seems interesting. The REAL reward to ANY advancement is the new skills and knowledge learned.

 

We teach knots... sometimes. Some of us teach the basic knots- show how to tie, see them tie, sign off and move on. Whoopie. We wonder why the boys can't tie a knot later and we blame them for their lack of interest.

 

Some of us teach the fundamental knot skills and a series of knots designed to teach the concept rather than earn the check point. Once they know the basics, we look for places to apply them, to teach new knots, and to see the Scouts USE the skills in real life. We hold knot tying games and challenges, and don't worry a lot about whether the boys will retain it, because we know they will.

 

These guys may not be gathering check points quite as fast, but they are having more fun and actually learning stuff.

 

 

There are a few things that we CANNOT do (G2SS prohibited, illegal/immoral, too expensive, etc.) but pretty much anything else ought to be at least worthy of consideration! Sure we don't give badges for skateboarding or video games. So what? There is no rule that says if there is no badge for it, we don't do it.

 

Please, please, please don't confuse cause and effect. Scouts should be learning stuff because it is fun to do or because they see the value in it, NOT to earn another piece of cheaply embroidered cloth.

[madkins007]

Other 'lessons' learned from this thread...

 

- It is our business to determine the morality of a game like D&D, rather than the parents.

 

- It is our right to confiscate personal property that is not illegal by the G2SS or actual area laws.

 

- That boy's time at camp (summer or weekend) needs to be 100% programmed, even their free time.

 

- We have to tell boys how to use their free time so it is used wisely.

 

- WE get to define what a wilderness or camping experience is for others based on our own preferences.

 

- We camp (summer and weekend) primarily to earn advancement.

 

Understand, I am not a fan of D&D (or other games that can consume long periods of time at a campout or meeting), of people mis-using their time, of devices on campouts that interfere with my enjoymnet of the outdoors, etc.- I am just not sure it is in our best interestes to behave in the ways listed above.

 

[scoutingagain]

Well I've read through this thread and come to the same conclusion madkins did.

 

So, we should probably ban Capture the Flag as well. It simulates conflict and territorial aggression. Part of the game is to take prisoners and they could be potentially be "abused." It would also take up time kids could be doing other adult structured activities.

 

I'm also reminded of a game my son learned at summer camp. It was described as an Indian(as in Native American) wrestling game and involved physical contact with other scouts. It was shown to him by members of the camp staff. It involved trying to move an opponent outside of a circle, while maintaining contact with the opponent. (No hitting, mostly a little shoving and pushing in a controlled way.) We were at a local camporee and some of the scouts in our troop were engaged in the game when scouts from the unit next to us started watching. The scouts in our unit explained the game to the scouts in the other unit and started to play with them. A leader from the other unit observed this physical contact between scouts of two different units and ran over and pulled the two scouts apart and yelled at the scouts like they were school yard bullies.

 

So no games with physical contact. No games that simulate conflict. No games that don't support advancement. Oh and don't have games where there is competition because someone might lose.

 

Yet we are supposed to try and attract boys between the ages of 11 & 18 and we wonder why scouting has such a reputation as being a kind of "geek" activity.

 

 

SA

 

 

[seabear]

I'm sorry I thought this was Scouting. "Scouting is a game with a purpose-the purpose of helping boys become men, training them for Citzenship,Character,Health & Strenght,Skills and Service to Others.Training for citzenship-that's the aim of Scouting. Strong in character, healthy in body, skilled with his hands, and keen of mind, ready to be of help to other people. Scouting is adventure, comradeship. Scouting allows a boy to create a mental pictures of his goals ,then to work to make those pictures become reality. To choose their own direction and influnce their own Destiny. To try to decide wisely and well.What is more important living the Scout Oath and Law or earning Merit Badges, becoming an Eagle Scout? Not ever boy will become an Eagle Scout, not ever boy will earn merit badges or advance in rankas fast as others, they are no least of scouts are they?