D&D and scouts.

[Sturgen]

Just a general question:

Do D&D and Scouts contradict each other or complement each other? I know some individuals/churches believe that D&D (Dungeons and Dragons) is a satanic, ritualistic game of cults and idol worshipers. Personally I think they fit together well, I started to play at Scout Camp and nearly everyone I play with is in Scouting. If you play a good game, honor, loyalty and wit are the skills that will take you far in the game, and when compared to video games or TV, it is far more intellectual.

 

[tortdog]

Some in my church think its satanic. I never saw a problem with it (unless you carry it to the extreme). I have played Magic, and some in my church had a dim view of that game as well.

 

I think whether it's good or bad merely depends on how you treat it (as a game or some altnerate reality).

 

Going down this road, I've heard some churches preach against Harry Potter (satanic and witchcraft). I've always enjoyed fantasy books so I never really agreed with that view.

 

Short answer: I don't see a problem at all.

[Lynda J]

I have some problems with D&D. I simply don't like any game where you are killing each other.

But I do have a problem with this type of game being at camp. No place for it. There are to many SCOUT things that you should and need to be doing.

We do not allow any electronics at any scout activity. Any that are brought are taken up and locked away until the next troop meeting.

Same thing with cell phones. I know that some parents give them to their kids for safety. But when we camp each leader there has a phone. They are used for emergencies only. 99% of the phones that kids have have games on them. They don't need to be at camp.

 

 

[tortdog]

If the question is whether or not it's appropriate at camp, I'd agree that it's not the place. Not because of some moral purpose, but if youth are spending time playing a game at Scout Camp they obviously aren't signed up for enough merit badges. Get them into archery and environmental science. That should take their time up easily.

[Torveaux]

Like many inert things, D&D and any other role playing game is a vehicle that can be used for good or for evil.

 

A particularly devout individual may be inclined to play as a cleric bent upon spreading whatever faith he espouses. These characters often are seen as champions against evil.

 

As for camp, I could see a situation where role playing games could be used as a teaching tool or as part of some training. Like any 'free-time' activity, it can be a distraction. I tend to be with those who see camp as a unique opportunity to learn outdoor skills and things like D&D and video games are best left for cold winter days at home.

[DugNevius]

I dont see a problem with it at apporpriate times. At summer camp or a camping trip, if its free time, when the work is done its fine with me. Our troop loves Risk, the game of world conquest.

[Sturgen]

In regards to the "at camp" portion, I just brought that up to show my link of playing to Scouting. In my case it was a matter of eight or ten senior staff members getting together durring BOB time or evening free time. I tend to agree with DugNevius in regards to when they can play, many troops pull out the Risk boards, decks of cards at night when a hard days work is done, its a good way to relax after a long days work. In no way am I implying they should play durring merit badge time, but theres always an hour here and there that the scouts have free in the evening or early morning, might as well play a game that requires use of logic, memory and mathematics.

[Eamonn]

I have no idea what D&D is.

Maybe I'm showing my age.

I do have a problem with some of the ideas that have been posted:

"Get them into archery and environmental science. That should take their time up easily."

What if the boy has no interest in environmental science or archery? He paid to attend camp, he should choose what merit badges if any he wants to pursue.

" We do not allow any electronics at any scout activity. Any that are brought are taken up and locked away until the next troop meeting.

Same thing with cell phones"

What gives you the right to take things that do not belong to you?

If a Lad is supposed to be doing something he should be doing it!! If instead of doing it he was reading his Scout Handbook or the Bible he still wouldn't be doing what he was supposed to.

My Son has a cell phone because I gave it to him, we have deep personal reasons for wanting him to have one, these have to do with the health of his mother. If any one took it off him I would be very upset.

I have found that most young people are far more polite than most adults when it comes to cell phone use. Maybe because they know how to use them and can send and receive text messages and check their messages, without the darn thing ringing in the middle of a Scouts Own service.

We have covered this cell phone thing at length and I for one do not want to go over it all again.

My feelings are that whatever happens I never ever give up my rights as a parent, when I allow my son to attend a Scouting function. I believe that he has been raised to be Courteous and Helpful,if and when he steps outside of these and any of the other Scout Laws I would hope to hear from the Troop Committee Chairman.

Scout leaders should be delivering the program, not spending their time making and trying to enforce stupid rules that have no place in Scouting.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[tortdog]

>What if the boy has no interest in environmental science or archery? He paid to attend camp, he should choose what merit badges if any he wants to pursue.

 

Sure, but getting an eagle required merit badge ought to be fairly high on his list, no?

 

>What gives you the right to take things that do not belong to you?

 

Same reason electronics are prohibited at woodbadge, I'd suppose. They interfere and distract from the program and the purpose for which the scouts are there.

 

>My Son has a cell phone because I gave it to him, we have deep personal reasons for wanting him to have one, these have to do with the health of his mother. If any one took it off him I would be very upset.

 

Cell phones can be abused, which is why many schools prohibit them. Honestly, is it that harmful to give the boy some time in the camp without outside contact, except for emergency situations that can easily be attended to by the leaders?

 

In the camps I went to growing up, cell or no you would not have been able to contact home. It was way too remote for any kind of signal. I personally think it's important to get the youth away from the "world" and into nature.

 

>My feelings are that whatever happens I never ever give up my rights as a parent, when I allow my son to attend a Scouting function. I believe that he has been raised to be Courteous and Helpful,if and when he steps outside of these and any of the other Scout Laws I would hope to hear from the Troop Committee Chairman.

 

That's fine, but if there are rules that prevent a "right", then that right is forfeited when the scout signs up to attend. Maybe other scouts are not as mature as your son, and allowing electronics and cell phones would merely ruin their own experience. The courteous thing to do might be to keep them out for the benefit of the whole, no?

 

>Scout leaders should be delivering the program, not spending their time making and trying to enforce stupid rules that have no place in Scouting.

 

Sometimes the only way the program can be effectively delivered is via rules, and what one may view as "stupid", others through experience may have learned are essential.

[Prairie_Scouter]

Eamonn,

 

D&D is a game called Dungeons and Dragons. It's a fantasy role playing game where characters can take on traits of good or evil in the context of the game. Individuals gain power and experience through successfully negotiating adventures created by a "dungeon master". It can be used to teach teamwork or the power of the individual, although it is primarily just a game. It's been popular since at least when I was in college in the late 60s, early 70s.

 

D&D is like many things that are viewed negatively by those who I think don't understand the nature of the thing being discussed. This is true with D&D. There are those who think that Halloween is satanic in nature, regardless that its history says otherwise. Harry Potter is about a boy coming of age; there is, of course, a magical component to it, but there is no mention of Satan in any of the books that I know of. There is a TV show called "Charmed" that has also been condemned by some, even tho the story line involved magic as a force of nature, used to battle evil. I find it interesting that those who would attack these kinds of things seem to have no problem with "miracles" within their own religions, which are quite "magical" in nature.

 

Anyway, in the context of a Scout campout, there is going to be down time on any campout. Every second doesn't have to be filled with activities directly tied to merit badges or other Scout-related activities. Some down time should be scheduled into these outings, and during those times, I see no problem with them doing something like D&D.

[Hunt]

Unless somebody has a particular religious objection to it (some COs might), it seems to me no different than playing bridge or other non-gambling card games.

[packsaddle]

As far as the Mephisto factor goes, I agree with Hunt. But I also agree with Tortdog regarding activities at camp. I don't make the boys' decisions for them but I encourage them, as much as possible, to do active things at camp rather than passive things where they basically sit around. We have ample opportunities outside camp for those 'knowledge-based' merit badges. Same goes for fantasy, role-playing games (like bridge or canasta or hearts;) ).

[Torveaux]

One problem that could arise from D&D (or other kinds of games) is that they can become havens for cliques rather than open opportunities for everyone to play. I see this problem more likely with games like Magic where the player really needs to own their own deck in order to play. If the boys playing D&D are part of a regular group that plays together and are unwilling to accommodate additional players, I would discourage or ban it use (more appropriately, I think a general rule of such activities should be that they must be willing to accommodate anyone who wishes to play).

 

A well-run role-playing game can include anyone who wants to join in. Bridge and other traditional card games can turn into tournaments that widen the number of potential players. Personally, I would prefer my son spend his 'free' time at camp doing outdoor activities and enjoying nature. Playing card games and role-playing games are better suited for indoors / bad weather.

[resqman]

I think the question has split into two questions:

 

Is D&D appropriate for Scouts to play?

 

Should scouts be playing any games during downtime/freetime?

 

When we go camping I always throw in a deck of cards in case the weather turns ugly and the scheduled activity is canceled. (Canoeing in a metal canoe in an electrial storm, etc.)

 

Last campout those scouts who had arrived and setup thier campsites, needed something to occupy their time. We brought along a chess/checkers/backgammon set. The boys set up the game and took turns playing the winner. We were waiting for others to arrive, which no one did do to expected weather, before we began campfire activities. The board games kept the scouts entertained while exercising their minds.

 

I remember many nights as a camp staff member hosting card games in my cabin. Our responsibilities for the day were complete and but had time before lights out. We would play cards for hours every night.

 

Scouts is not just about outdoors, it should be fun. There are many requirements for all the ranks that include fun and game playing. A board game or card game teaches lots of skills besides just how to win that particular game. Socialization, being a graceful winner/loser, strategy, etc.

 

So Yes to the second question, scouts should be playing games during scout outings.

 

[tortdog]

>Canoeing in a metal canoe in an electrial storm, etc.

 

What's wrong with that?