Witchcraft in Scouting

[Illini]

1 1/2 to 2 years ago the father of a troubled Scout mentioned that his son was having problems with religion and the church. I prayed for his soul and asked that he find his way back to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This young man is hurting and confused so I revised my prayers to ask that this he find his way back to the good and positive in the world so that he could once again believe.

 

Time passed and the young man received his Eagle and you know what the Board of review never asked him about his belief in a higher power, a higher power of good.

 

He has been practicing Witchcraft - the dark arts all the while, with the belief that improvement in his health is a result of his new religion. I held a conversation with the young man last week asking "Where are you in your struggle with religion I got a see saw motion with his hand and the statement "I look at my stuff all the time and am just not sure."

 

Need some advice because this young man and his family will attend resident camp with several new scouts this summer. The parents will deny the involvement with the dark arts to protect themselves stating that it was just a phase.

 

I am Christian but believe in all good and loving Gods of many religions but the darkness terrifies me.

 

I do not want a "he said, she said" argument but feel I need to protect the boys in the troop including this misguided but wonderful young man.

 

[Eamonn]

I landed myself in hot water in these forums a couple of years back for poking fum at Druids.

So I am not going to go down that path again.

My knowledge of Witchcraft is not that great. From what I hear it is nothing like the old Hammer movies.

While there were reports a year or so back about some youths in the UK killing cats and holding something that might be called Black Masses, it had more to do with vandalism than religion.

While some of these religions may not sit well with some of us, they are never the less religions a lot of them seem to have a lot to do with the wonder of nature and very little if anything to do with the dark arts.

Come to think of it other than some really bad movies I don't know what the dark arts are?

Eamonn.

[eisely]

Perhaps you are talking about Wicca which is not black witchcraft. Wicca has come up before in these forums. While it is not an established religion it scarcely disqualifies one from being a scout or a scout leader unless someone insists on following a monotheistic religion. But then Hinduism is perfectly acceptable to BSA.

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

We had a scout who practiced Black Witchcraft. He was one of those scouts that I once got calls from the police. Truely a very troubled boy from a a very troubled family. He loved our troop because it was an escape from his real life. We liked him a lot also.

 

My advice is approach him honestly like I approached our scout. Explain the concern most folks have with Witchcraft and they think it is evil. I told him that it was not my place to preach or sway him one way or the another. Normally I would suggest talking with the parents, but in this case no. I asked that he consider not talking about his beliefs, but instead just observe everyone in the troop. He will find most of the other scouts aren't out spoken either. Scouting is a great place to watch and learn. Leave it at that and I think your OK. It worked for our scout in the Witchcraft area. I sure wish we could have done more with the rest of his life.

 

Good luck.

 

Barry

[Illini]

I am familiar with Wicca and by no means is this young man honoring or respecting the earth, nature or what our surrounding provide us. He is practicing the rituals of the dark world, the under Lord, Satan. The ritualistic cutting, dark attire and alters are part of the daily rituals. He truly believes that an improvement in his health is a direct result of his new life.

 

I have spoken with the boy and related the near death of a family member because black witchcraft was attempted before medical attention was sought and my fear for his safety. He knows that I am concerned and care for his well being and that the quater wrapped in paper (my personal phone numbers) is to be use 24/7 and when the quater is gone, collect is next.

 

I am concerned that each boy in our troop must sign a contract based on the oath, law, promise and expanded by the committee members that clearly spells out a reverence to God, trustworthy, loyal, honest etc. Is satan a god? A god that you want your child exposed to? A god that Badan Powell would want our future leaders to be reverant to?

 

Am I a good leader letting this boy sign this contract knowing there are lies and deciet behind his signature as well as his parents because we all must sign?

[OldGreyEagle]

Marge, I want to be sure I understand what you are saying, you have scouts sign a contract? Could you be more definitive as to what is in the contract and the reason that the COmmittee felt this step is necessary?

 

[eagle90]

I'm a little confused, I guess. Who is your CO? Is it a church, school, service organization? It sounds as if you are adding to the reuqirements having boys sign a contract. Are you afraid this boy is going to spend his time proselytizing and recruiting other boys into his religion? How old is this boy? I have found that religion may be the farthest thing from the boy's minds when they are busy with the Scouting program. I am a very active church member with religious awards as both a scout and adult, but wonder if the religious aspect isn't being emphasized a little too much. I think we need more info to give any advice.

[Prairie_Scouter]

I guess I'd like to know more about this "contract" you're talking about; doesn't sound like a part of BSA.

 

And, I'd also like to know if this Scout has specifically said that he is practicing rituals to invoke the power of Satan. There are a number of "witch-like" belief sets; I'm not an expert on this; I'm more interested in what this Scout has said about what his belief set is.

 

 

[Illini]

Our charter organization is a Church but does not have much involvement with the troop the current committee prefers it that way. And yes I feel it is beyond reason that the boys, leaders and parents must sign this procedures and guidelines An example is:

Scout Law - Violation

Helpful - failure to do share of work.

Obedient - not following directions of those in authority, bringing improper items to meetings and activities, vandalism.

Cheerful - constant complaining

Reverent - disrespect of others religious beliefs

 

The consequensces of violating any of these will be at the discretion of the scoutmaster...but the preceeding is a topic all in itself.

 

If this young man sets up an alter in the woods and others happen by is this behavior OK?

 

And what is considered religion in the eyes of Boy Scouting is there a defining line? I guess that is my question and is this boy following the Law and Oath worshiping Satan? And yes this young man who will be 18 within the year will discuss his religious beliefs with other Scouts should they inquire.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Your knowledge of his problems appears to be second hand and fragmentary, so you may have already judged him. The young man is already a "wonderful" Eagle Scout and his parents will be coming with him to camp. You have a signed statement from him but you doubt it's veracity and his trustworthiness. Your request has more to do with his character than religion, which none of us would know about. The end product of Scouting is Character Development, Physical and Mental Fitness, and Participating Citizenship. Try measuring him on these scales first and don't let your confusion be your guide.

 

Also slip another quarter into the paper you gave him. It now takes 50 cents for a call.

 

 

FB

[Illini]

My knowledge is not fragmentary, and I do not have a signed statement, if it exists the committee has it, and as to the quarter in the paper is an old expression so, as you will I'll just give him a cell phone with the numbers preprogramed. I can not judge this young man or any other for that matter because I am not worthy of that task but I can question their actions and that is what I attempted here.

 

Is witchcraft in the form of the dark arts, devil worship, conjuring spirits of the underworld sanctioned by BSA. If so where is it's place in within the Scouting program and are there national standards to define the meaning of Reverent and Duty to God.

[scoutldr]

It might be helpful to review the Declaration of Religious Principle, which all registered Scouts and Scouters agree to abide: The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely non-sectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. The Boy Scouts of America's policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership. The first thing I notice is that it states "obligation to God"...God with a capital "G". In my opinion, that means the God of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic tradition, aka, Allah, Jahweh, Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, etc. In all of these writings, it is clear that Satan is not "God", indeed the concept of Satan is the antithesis of God. Likewise, the "Earth Mother" is not God. So, I think that the liberal interpretation that "belief in a higher power" suffices, is just a little too liberal. Of course, you will never get BSA to admit that Satanism is equivalent to Atheism, so once again, we are left to our own interpretations. I would tell the young man and his family that Satanism is not an acceptable activity, based on your interpretation, and the avowal and practice of Satanism will not be tolerated in a Scouting context. Then let him appeal. Getting this young man "back on track" is beyond the resources of most Scouters, and should be left to his parents and God. It could be he is in need of pharmaceuticals, as well, and we can't help in that area, either. Here again, we have to consider whether saving this one lost sheep is worth losing all the others and destroying the program in the process. If you want to minister to and pray for this young man, that's admirable, but as the prayer says, pray for "the wisdom to know the difference".

[Fuzzy Bear]

I apologize for my misunderstanding of your post. Let me try a different approach.

 

Let's say that you read the statement about God that is on all Scout applications and decided that he was in violation of that statement. What would you do?

 

Let's say that you read the statement about God and decided that he was not in violation and he went to camp with his parents. After he gets to camp, he sets up a stone alter in the woods and begins to slay animals for blood sacrifice. What would you do at that point?

 

Actually the old saying in regards to a quarter had to do with a dime. The cell phone idea is novel, so you must be fairly young.

 

 

FB

[Illini]

Thank you both scoutldr and fuzzybear.

 

Scoutldr: As you can see you are the first to recognize the Declaration on this forum and I am the only to question what our children will be exposed to this summer at camp. I can only speculate what may transpire and I would rather be sure there is no chance for such exposure. Unfortuatly lying and deceit are Satan's best companions. I too believe as you "The first thing I notice is that it states "obligation to God"...God with a capital "G". In my opinion, that means the God of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic tradition, aka, Allah, Jahweh, Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, etc., But many in our organization many chose ignore the foundations of BSA because they are special, there are special circumstances etc. We all sign the statement quoted on the registration form but, I am finding even from the discussions here "if it doesn't apply to me why bother". It is a very frustration situation.

 

Fuzzy, O.k you caught me I know it's a dime but I didn't want to date myself but, I am a pusherover for the latest technology.

 

I know what I should do - stand up for the principles of Scouting but, what those around will chose to hear is that which is best for their situation, the no conflicts route. If we don't acknowledge the issue it only exists in the mind of the person complaining. I guess I just needed to hear one other Scouter stand up for what I believe, a belief in God and the integrity of the foundation of BSA.

[OldGreyEagle]

DO you know for sure he has killed animals for his "services"?