Improving Webelos to Scout Transition

[Bob White]

Here is a different way to look at this. Webelos to Scout Transition is totally different activity then recruitment, and is more important to the growth of a troop.

 

We at the troop level need to stop looking at Webelos as new recruits and view them as what they really are, individuals on a continuing trek through scouting. These are not NEW scouts they are changing as scouts. We don't go out to specifically recruit Webelos, they transition to the Webelos program. We are not two organizations, we are one oganization serving different age groups. we need to mentally and physically bridge the gap.

 

My own scouting background as a youth and as leader has been in both programs, but the majority of my time has been spent in the Troop level. I have the greatest respect for Cub Leaders, especially for den leaders who stay with the den from Tigers to Webelos II. They have kept a den intact for 4 1/2 years, a feat rarely duplicated by patrols in a troop. They see nearly 90% of their Webelos to Arrow of Light in 18 months. Many troops are unable to do that with First Class. These are leaders who did the job they were asked to do.

 

So when I see the horrible number of Webelos who cross over and the even worse numbers of those that stay the first year. My experience tells me where the problem is.

 

It is with the scout troops. We, as a program, do not do as good a job as the packs do. Its not unusual for packs to bring in a dozen or more new boys (who have never been in scouting before) each and every year, and not just Tigers. How many troops can do that? Here we have boys who have stayed in a program for 4 1/2 years and we cannot get them into troops and keep them for 12 months.

 

Why? Here are the problems I notice.

1) Boring troop meetings. If you have to put on a special program on nights when Webelos visit, then you have a program that is boring your own scouts the rest of the time. Every meeting should be one where Webelos can come and see the real BSA program in action.

 

2) The troop has not developed a relationship with a pack or packs. This is the troop's responsibility. The Packs already have the boys, the troops are the ones who need and want them.

 

3) The Patrol Method and the New Patrol system is underused or ignored by many troops. I cannot stress the importance and effectiveness of this program. The Patrol Method is what makes this program unique and is the vehicle for all other scouting methods. New Scout Patrol is vital for socializing a boy into the troop. This paired with the First Class Emphasis program is what keeps scouts in the troop that fragile first year. There will be those scoutmasters (some on this board) who will loudly disagree with New Patrol and First Class emphasis, but when you ask what their drop rate is among New Scouts they will, and have already, answered "Only 40 to 50%". That is a very sad condition to accept so lightly. When we lose a sscout in lesss than 12 months we disgrace the efforts of our Cub leaders who kept them for over four years.

 

4)We didn't "Keep the Promise". Read the first few pages of the Boy scout Handbook where we promise the scout what to expect. How many of those things did you do last week? Last maonth? Last Year? EVER?

 

5)The Master of Scouts vs. a Master of scouting. Too mant troop leaders think they are "in charge of the troop" rather than responsible for training junior leaders. The 'in charge guys have their plates too full to do what they need to do so they alter the program in order to feel successful. Here is a good self examination when choosing a troop to join. Does the Scoutmaster say "My troop" or do they say "in the troop that I serve". because in no way does the adult volunteer hold the deed to the troop. The Charter Organization head can say "my troop" the members of the CO can say "our troop" the youth members of the troop can say "my troop". But the Adult leaders do not join the troop as the youth do. They volunteer to serve the troop as leaders not as owners. Follow Me Boy's was a cute movie, a fun movie, but it is not good scouting and should not be looked as as a training film. A good Scoutmaster never walks in front of the boys.

 

So if you want Webelos to cross over to your troop and stay. You need be be a real scouting program. You need to actually use the methods of scouting, be the servant not the served, and be the ones to extend your hand to the cub packs.

 

My suggestion to packs is to have a webelos transition person who knows and understands good boy scouting. have them visit the troops and evaluate the programs. Then hold those troop leaders to the quality of program your Webeols deserve in a troop. Let the SM know that if you are going to bring your Webelos to visit and join you expect the New Scout patrol sytem to be used, that you expect a Troop guide and ASSt. SM dedicated to First Class emphasis. That you expect them to "keep the promise".

 

The problem in keeping youth in scouts is not the quality or content of the program, but the consistency with which it is delivered.

 

Bob White

[sctmom]

I want to say I have also seen #1 and #2 above from the Webelos side of things. The boys saw this great show on troop visit night. This show looked nothing like a real meeting we later found out. Also, while the boys were having fun, the parents were in another room talking and didn't see what they did. We asked the boys what they did and got the standard answer from a 10 year old --- "stuff".

 

Webelos Den Leaders are busy. It's hard to find more time to track down troops.

 

Would also be nice to give the Webelos Den Leaders some tips of "here are some things you might want to have your den doing so the transition will be easier". You know the stuff that is not in the books but someone who has been there can tell you about.

 

[mk9750]

Bob,

 

I just posted in the Den Chief thread, but most of my comments there hold here, too. At least in our situation, we go way above and beyond to extend our hand for the packs to help us cross boys over. Because of lack of knowledge, or desire, or burnout, or fear of the unkown, we get practically no help from the packs. "Who are your Webelos Den Leaders?" was asked in September of 4 Cub Packs in our area. we asked so that we can send them calenders, keep them advised of activities that are geared to them, and to send out invitations to a campout we do specifically with them in mind. Two said "we don't know yet", one said leave us alone, we'll come get you when we want you", and the last said "none of our guys will be crossing to boy Scouts. The parents all say you guys do too much dangerous stuff".

 

I agree with you that Cub Leaders are to be admired. They do very difficult work, and those that do it well are special. But my experience is that few understand their role in the seemless process of transitioning Cubs into Boy Scouts. And my basis for this statement is that any good Troop knows that it is only sustained with a constant flow of new Scouts. They aught to be working hard to get Cubs into Boy Scouts. If not, they will soon wither on the vine. But Cub Leaders see the end of their journey as the day the boys cross the bridge. "If I get them to AOL, and point them to the bridge, my job is done." This just doesn't get the job done.

 

Sorry to disagree with you, but our experience in almost exactly 180 degrees to what you propose.

 

Mark

[sctmom]

Mark,

I've seen what you are talking about too. The leaders going "wow, a few more months and I'm done with this scouting stuff". I know leaders who at this time of year don't know when their Webelos will cross over, haven't done a troop visit yet, and aren't even sure if they are working on AOL or not.

 

I wish you lived near me! I'd love to have a troop that interested in our Webelos.

 

[Eagledad]

>>My suggestion to packs is to have a webelos transition person who knows and My suggestion to packs is to have a webelos transition person who knows and understands good boy scouting. have them visit the troops and evaluate the programs. Then hold those troop leaders to the quality of program your Webeols deserve in a troop.

[Bob White]

But you know Barry, national statistics do not support what you are seeing locally. Overall the retention of cub scouts throughout the tenure of the program is excellent. There is no argument that a weakness in packs is the ability to effectively recruit adults, but I see that as a separate issue to Webelos transition.

 

And although I understand your point about Cub Leaders needing to know about the scout program I respectfully offer that cub leaders need to know the cub program. The smooth transition to the scouting methods of a troop and patrol is built into the New Scout Patrol it is just underutilized by Scoutmasters. A scout who has genuinely earned the Arrow of Light is ready to get his Scout Badge and start Boy Scouts. If the Webelos leader has been conscientious about following the Webelos program then the boy will have everything he needs to go to a real troop.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Scoutmaster Ron]

I also was Den leader thru Webelos 2 and found that I had to go after troops to schedule visits and outings. Now that I am ASM I wanted to search out W2 leaders and promote what we were doing as a troop. Just last month we had an open house and invited every W2 den in our city. During this "open house" (which the boys planned) was to show off their scout skills and to promote the outings that we go on.

Unfortunatly we didnt have the response that we had liked for the open house we still have dens visiting us totally appox 25 scouts. W2 leaders need to talk to the boys that boy scouts is just an extentsion of the program they originaly joined and that it just gets funner here on out.

[SR540Beaver]

These are all good comments!

 

Let me give you another perspective. Little Johnny goes to a recruitment meeting at his elementary school and decides he wants to join Cub Scouts. Dad has never been a scout or maybe dropped out at Webelos himself as a kid. Mom, being a female obviously wan't a scout as a kid. Eventually, Mom and Dad both get involved in leadership roles in the pack. Mom and Dad's total scout experience is at the Cub Scout level with Tigers and Wolves. They know nothing of the Boy Scout experience since they were never Boy Scouts. Yes, they can go get training, but can they really prepare their boys for Boy Scouts? I agree with Bob that it is one program aimed at two different age groups. But it usually is seen as two programs. The Cubs rarely have any kind of consistent access to the troops and the troops don't want to get involved in little kid activities. Plus, BSA doesn't always promote togetherness. Just in the last few days there has been a thread about Cubs and Troops needing seperate camp facilities at council events for safty concerns. As long as you try to keep them apart, you are going to have a hard time getting them together. I one shot activity a year just isn't enough to build and maintain a relationship.

[Dan Williamson]

Bob White,

What is your recommended method for handling the Scout Badge requirements for a cohort of Webelos coming to the troop? If they had a good Webelos II den and a quality experience to earn Arrow of Light they should have accomplished most of the requirements for the Scout Badge. Do you do a "check ride" and present them with their Scout Badge the first night they arrive? I can see advantages in that. Or is there another better way. It certainly doesn't need to be strung out but I want to get it right.

[Eagledad]

Yes, it is a seperate issue, that's why I didn't want to wonder around too much. There are many factors to scouts continuing in their scouting experience. I tend to focus on the problem that appears over and over. At least around here, I think the weak den leaders is at least 50% of the problem

 

Your right about National, and I asked our professionals how they track Webelos so I could find out why my findings seem so different. They didn't have a good reason but they did explain that National doesn't always look at numbers so much as they poll families and leaders. That makes since, that is what I did.

 

I found that in one pack, you could have two dens with completely different crossover numbers. When I talked to the families, I found the scouts in one den hated their webelos experience while the other den had full expectations to crossover. Another interesting fact I learned was that you could have a completely un-Webelos like den, no camping, no hiking or out doors program, just basically crafts or something. But if they were having fun and visited troops, they crossed over. It wasn't so much the program had to be the cool Webelos outdoor program, it just had to be a fun with some expectation that Troops was the next step. Surprised me.

 

Hey Bob, thanks for your time, I learned a lot.

 

Barry

[Bob White]

What I have found works on a consistant basis is you tell the parents ahead of time (by the way if your troop has waited until a couple of months before crossover to look make a relationship with a Webelos Den you are at least 10 months too late) and let them know that if their son comes to their first meeting with the Parents section Child Abuse done they will receive their Scout Badge.

 

We then introduce them to the Troop Guide who spends the next 40 minutes teaching and testing them on the scout Badge requirements. Then the SM comes in and has a fire side chat sort of SM minute welcoming them to the troop answering quaestions and learning about their hobbies and interests.

 

That night they leave the first meeting with their first badge and they are fired-up.

 

I've done it this way for many years and it works great. But then it's the program that is succeeding it's nothing I made up.

 

BW

[Dan Williamson]

Bob White,

Thanks. We have a good feeder Pack...same number in fact and same charter organization. This past year we strenghtened relationships with the pack so all is good. I had skulled through a lot of what you recommended but had not thought of the Parent guide part. Good idea. Thanks again.

[Twocubdad]

Bless you, Bob White, I'm copying your original post and handing it out at Roundtable this week.

 

One other factor I think plays a bigger role than many may consider is the intimidation an 11-year-old feels joining a troop of much older boys. A good Troop Guide, New Scout Patrol with an ASM assigned to supervise them goes a long way, but it is also important for the rest of the troop to be mindful of the new boys. Leaders need to keep an extra eye out for boys who are having a hard time adjusting.

 

That's a problem for one of the Troops affiliated with our Pack. I see a lot of older boys more interested in being cool and doing their own thing than bringing the new boys along. For the first few months, the entire troop needs to be in "crossover mode" with all the boys on the lookout to help a new guy.

[Bob White]

Here again is another way to look at things twocubdad. As the old commercial said "it's not nice to fool mother nature". Being mindful of the needs and characteristics of New Scouts is just part of the socialization battle. You must also be aware of the characteristics and needs of the older scouts.

 

Keep in mind some of the older guys were just new scouts themselves a few months earlier. They don't want to relive that time, they have their basic skills now and they are anxious to run with the big dogs. One of the main elements of the New scout patrol is that the programs are kept separate for the most part during the first year, especially early on.

 

Bring the new scouts in with the other patrols for opening and closing periods and inter-patrol games. Other than that, run a separate program foucused on the fundamentals of scouting and Tenderfoot to First Class advancement. As the year progresses you can introduce the New Scouts into more activities with the regular patrols. This allows both groups time to acclimate to each other.

 

Remember the younger ones don't have the skills or strength to keep up with many of the older scouts, and the older scouts don't want to feel anchored down by the younger less skilled scouts. One year makes a huge difference in the maturity level of both groups. Once the New scouts can hold ther own on an outing and have gotten a little stronger, and the older ones have had a chance to be introduced to the new guys, the two groups will socialize much smoother.

 

Don't try to force either group into a social situation that neither want or are prepared for. There is definite method to what some see as scouting's madness. The New Patrol System works when we use it.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White

 

 

 

 

[ASM514]

Bob White, I am in awe at your original post. How insightfull. My God man you have the pulse of scouting indeed. I can only say, "Bravo"