So What Would You Do?

[evmori]

dug,

I would!

[Trevorum]

Dan, I know a BUNCH of atheists and secular humanists and other godless types and not a single one has ever tried to push their beliefs on anyone in my presence, much less children. These folks are respectful of religious beliefs and, while loving a good debate, they would never ever try to educate another persons child. In fact, the only people who HAVE tried to push their beliefs on my children have been Christians of various denominations. If they wewre allowed into BSA, I really don't think atheists would be any kind of threat to scouts with religious beliefs. On the contrary, I think it much more likely that the children of atheists might be interested to learn more about religion.

[acco40]

Let's look rationally at this and look at two different perspectives.

 

1. I'm an atheist. I observe someone who firmly believes in Christianity, heaven/hell, God, Jesus, etc. They try to be good Christians and besides having to endure a few prayer recitations, heartfelt attempts to get me to "believe" etc. I see no real problem with their religion. Luckily, they also believe in separation of church and state (render to Caesar ...). Not a big deal. I make no attempt to "convert" them to atheism.

 

2. I'm a devout Christian with a few friends who are "non-believers." Firmly believing in eternal damnation, I worry, plead, and try my best to get them to "see the light" so to speak. I obviously have their best interest at heart. I deeply care about them. Knowing the awful fate that awaits these good intentioned people who have not accepted JC as their savior I do my best to convert them.

 

Now, should anyone be surprised that atheists would be much less likely to try and persuade others to their way of thinking?(This message has been edited by acco40)

[DugNevius]

Thats right Tevorum. Now i wonder how Evmori would feel about a Muslim or Jewish Scoutmaster who really tries to convert all his scouts FROM christianity.

[Proud Eagle]

Humor me by playing along with my little concocted situation:

 

StarGazerOne suggests that a grouping of stars looks like an elephant.

 

StarGazerTwo suggests that a grouping of stars looks like an alligator.

 

Both believe you can find patterns that make up things such as constellations in the starts. However, they completely disagree about which stars make which patterns. Both respect the fact that the stars do make patterns, but they just can't agree on what those patterns are.

 

Then StarGazerThree comes along and denies that it is possible for stars to contain any particular pattern resembling any particular terrestrial thing. He denies that it is even possible for there to be constellations. He doesn't just say he doesn't see them, he says it is impossible for their to be any.

 

As you may have guessed, One and Two are believers of some sort. Three is an atheist.

 

It is rather difficult to think that someone with Three's position could ever really respect the beliefs of others, since he thinks it is utterly and completely impossible for there to be anything to believe in.

 

The atheists I have met were mostly nice people. Most of them didn't argue much about religion, after all that would be sort of like arguing about the price of fruit when you didn't think fruit was real. However, the atheists I have met almost universally thought that religion was a silly waste of time. On the other hand, I have met a great deal of believers in a variety of faiths (and even agnostics) who had deep respect for the beliefs of others, even though they thought those beliefs were incorrect.

 

I personally think there are many religions that are the wrong path. However, I understand what faith is about. I understand the basics of having faith in something. Struggling to understand, having your beliefs tested. I can sympathize with people of other faiths. It is sort of like two people taking a hike. They may take different paths, but they both make a journey. We have something in common. On the other hand, the person that denies there is any path to take and so therefore will not make the journey, they really don't understand what it is like to climb the hills, and go down into the valleys, and to rest under the shade of an old tree watching the sun set while birds sing and animals meander about.

 

I admit that I can't even begin to understand atheism. Most atheists I have know admit they can't even begin to understand faith.

 

It seems to me if we wish to admit atheists, we will need to expunge all references to God, all idea of encouraging Scouts to seek their path. After all, it would be somewhat hypocritical to ask an atheist to send a Scout on a journey that goes to no-where.

 

(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

[evmori]

dug,

I really would not have a problem with that as long as I would have the same opportunity.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

I would have BIG problem with that. That kind of bullying behavior by adults is NOT to be tolerated in a scouting environmnt regardless of the respective belief systems.

[DugNevius]

some people are saying that the atheists would be out lobbying to convert the children. I dont think this is really the case. Yesterday morning, as my alarm went off i found i was listening to a radio commercial for the LDS. It got me thinking: The different sects of christianity all have commercials on TV and radio seeking to promote their religion. On TV there are also the telavangalists and the heavily christian themed television shows like "7th heaven" or "Joan of Arcadia" or "Touched By an Angel"

 

To my knowledge there has NEVER been any radio or TV commerical trying to convert people to the idea that there is NO God. Likewise, on public access or sunday morning tv there are no preachers on pulpits imforming veiwers of the lack of a God. I am also convinced that a show centering around Muslim beliefs, the islamic versians of "7th heaven" or "Touched By Allah" because mass amounts of christians would be up in arms and screaming bloody murder. How about a show about atheism? forget about it.

[evmori]

dug,

I don't think Christians would be up in arms if Muslims or any other religion had a show on television. If we (Christians) don't want to watch it, we change the channel! It seems to me the atheists (you) are more concerned with the elimination of religion from public life than Christians are with atheists.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

What gets on TV, and what does not, is based entirely on its ratings. Except for PBS, local public access, and cable (which makes its money by subscription) a TV shows purpose is to get you to watch TV commercials. The more people you can get to watch your show the more you can charge for the commercial time. You will not find TV shows based on topics that only a small proportion of people will watch.

 

Christians outnumber all other religions in North America and Canada 40 to 1. Is it really any wonder why there are more Christian TV and radio shows? There are lots of TV and radio shows on Islam, just not in the North American market, just as you won't find Christian shows in high Islamic population regions of the world.

 

Atheists make up such a tiny percentage of the population that you could not get a large enough viewership to be financially viable. Can you think of a product that is user specific to atheists that could draw advertisers to such a show?

 

There are non-Christian shows however in local market areas. I remember as a kid in the Chicago area watching "The Magic Door" each Sunday, It was a childrens show that taught about Judaism, my parents never objected, my brothers and I found it fun and interesting.

 

So to think atheists are under represented in commercial media due to Christian pressure is incorrect. Atheists simply do not represent a large enough segment of this continent to be commercially feasible audience.

 

As far as Atheists as an apostolic movement their success at that would be dubious at best.

The theists of the world, regardless of there religious family or sect, all believe that God (in whatever form you recognize God) have given us all a great gift. Atheist have chosen to ignore both the gift and the gift giver. To try and convince others to relinquish both would be a very difficult sell indeed.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[DugNevius]

Ed, i think you are underestimating the zeal of the Religious Right here. BettyStevens right here on this website is a good example of this. There is a large movement in our society in an effort to promote censorship of non-christian things on the radio, TV and other medias as well as a certain level of accepted racism against Islamic and imigarnt people.

 

As far as it about ratings, commericals are paid for. The LDS commercials on TV and ratio are not about ratings but advertising a belief system in an effort to convert. Atheists dont advertise on TV or Radio or magazines. Athiests dont knock on peoples doors, thats the Jahova's Witnesses.

[Bob White]

I thought the part of religious commercials was pretty obvious and well understood. If you want one you have to buy one. LDS commercials exist because someone bought them. If as an atheist you wanted a commercial on TV or radio then you would have to buy it same as everyone else. There is no movement keeping atheist or theist commercials off the air. Each have equal opportunity.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eagledad]

>>To my knowledge there has NEVER been any radio or TV commerical trying to convert people to the idea that there is NO God.

[DugNevius]

Bob, you have it backwards. TV programs dont buy commercials, advertisers pay for time on TV and radio. The LDS paid for their time. My point is Atheists arent buying airtime to convert anyone.

 

To me it seems a bit egocentric for adult leaders to try to convert scout into any faith, be it christianity, islam, judism or atheism. Religious beliefs should be left up to the individual, the parents of the child and religious leader such as Priest, Rabbi or other, and since we scoutmasters are not the parents and religious leaders of the troop it is not our place to preach faiths at all.

[OldGreyEagle]

Its been a few years I think, they fly by so quickly, two of my favorite all time TV shows were in their pinnacle of popularity. I loved Kevin Sorbo as Herculues and Lucy Lawless as Xenia, Warrior Princess. I loved these shows, they would have a plot line concerning Julius Ceasar one week and another with David and Goliath. The wove Greek and Roman mythology with a touch of the Celtics as well. They were popular because people wanted to watch them. Let me repeat that, they were popular because people wanted to watch them, as is the case with all TV shows, people want to watch them. If they dont want to watch them, they dont (can you say Hello Larry)

 

I guess pantheism isnt a turnoff