So What Would You Do?

[dsteele]

I know it's not a popular position, acco. One some might fight me on.

 

Don't get me wrong guys -- lots of my friends and family are dead people.

 

They just don't have the right "stuff" to be leaders in the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Now I'll duck from the firestorm of controversy

 

Unc.

[packsaddle]

He most certainly is NOT dead! He's just gone home.

[Bob White]

"He most certainly is NOT dead! He's just gone home."

 

In that case he will need to register with his current council. I am not sure we have a local service center near him.

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Douglas Adams is just spending 5 years dead for tax purposes.

[dsteele]

Merlyn:

 

I wish you'd show that side of yourself more often. That was funny!

 

Unc.

[Fuzzy Bear]

So, Dilbert is sitting in his cubicle having a thought experiment.

He says to himself, "Man is not perfect."

Then he says, "God is all powerful and all knowing."

Then, "Man has free will"

Then, "God knows man's every move."

Then, "I want to conjure up a new color."

Then, "This would not be a hard problem for God."

Then, "Since God knows the answer and if he will give it to me, it will be a miracle and then I can patent it and become rich and famous."

God to Dilbert, "You were right about Man."

 

FB

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

In the Hitchhiker's Guide, rock star Hotblack Desiato of Disaster Area spends a year dead for tax reasons.

Hey, I *am* the webmaster for the Firesign Theatre, and I've actually written material that they've performed.

[Trevorum]

Bob, that would be the Direct Service - Hereafter Council.

[OldGreyEagle]

As I have often said, I think we are all Bozo's on this bus

[packsaddle]

OGE, "As I have often said..." I'm not so sure about that...

I searched your archive and you have only written it once before. Perhaps you were SAYING it often, and we weren't listenting.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Hey OGE, you can get it on a bumper sticker:

http://www.lodestonecatalog.com/cgi-bin/ltmcat.cgi?sku=FMCH101

 

Or the album itself on CD, of course:

http://www.lodestonecatalog.com/firesign.html

 

End of plug.

[DugNevius]

"On free will:

Both religious and non-religious trains of thought can lead some people to the philosophical conclusion that free will does not exist. Thus, if God preordains what we will do, there is no free will. Similarly, if all our actions are simply caused by prior random events in the universe, there is no free will."

 

Exactly. This isnt a leap in logic. This is exact by definition. And if we are toeliminate logic from the debate of God or homosexuality, then there can be no argument at all and nothing can be defined as wrong or right.

 

Therefore, either God is perfect and we can not fault homosexuals for being homosexual, because god has made them this way and it is not a choice, or God is flawed and you cant blame homosexuals because the creator either made them this way or he goofed.

 

[Hunt]

"Therefore, either God is perfect and we can not fault homosexuals for being homosexual, because god has made them this way and it is not a choice, or God is flawed and you cant blame homosexuals because the creator either made them this way or he goofed."

 

No, it's more complicated than that. You make some assumptions that aren't fully proven. First, you assume for the sake of your argument that homosexuals are "made this way." That is, you assume that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, rather than a chosen behavior. It may be, but not everybody believes that. Second, even if people have an innate tendency to act in a particular way, does that mean they must do so? Does it mean that it is necessarily moral for them to do so? You can't assume that, either. Also, you assume that if there is a God, that this means that everything that occurs is what he wishes to occur. While this is the traditional view, it is not necessarily the case--and if free will exists, it seems obvious to me that things can occur that God doesn't wish (the Bible is full of actions that are clearly portrayed as being contrary to God's will, for example). Would this mean that God doesn't know every detail of the future? Perhaps--and that doesn't trouble me too much.

 

[DugNevius]

Not exactly. Im not assuming anything really. Simply, If there is a "perfect" God then there is no free will. If their is Free Will there is no "perfect" God. Logically there can not be both. With the idea of innate behavior, then therefore can one with an innate behavior that is deemed against the moral fiber of normal society be really faulted for behavior that is innate? Isnt it true though our justice system does not prosecute citizens when it was innate behavior that made them act immorally or criminally, because they could not control and therefore be blamed for what they did? Maybe this is why a lot of homophobes refuse to accept homosexuality as innate. Its a choice to them. The homosexuals chose to go against God. Perfect God.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I have been unable to find an answer to how a person's sexuality preference is determined or the reason a person chooses their lifestyle even by using the internet and the Bible. Many have observed that homosexuality happens and has occurred throughout recorded history. Likewise, peoples choices of religions, even when it looks like they are similar in nature are almost always vastly different one from the other even when they use the same words and sometimes the same meanings for the same words. Congruence between religions would appear on the surface to be an easy objective but it is a profoundly complex and irresolvable. Each religion generally casts all of the others into outer darkness because ultimate truth is thought to be at a premium and none have any room for compromise or they may face the same consequences. So, it has to be a problem in how we treat one another and/or how we live together. Now, if people fear criminal acts as a result of lifestyle choice or religion or if any individual hurts another for whatever reason and whether it was a person's character or free-will, a line has been crossed and the act can't be undone and should not be condoned. We hope that justice is swift but fair and that the punishment fits the crime close enough to discontinue the acts and to make satisfactory reparations to the offended party(ies).

Scouting has done a remarkable service in bringing together so many disparate religions and types of people over the years. It may be that an outer boundary has been reached by the program and the Good Will that has been fostered that could no longer be achieved if others were allowed in. It may be fear or lack of understanding or both but it appears that even with laws in place to prevent bloodshed and/or unwanted advances that the other two elements could not co-exist with Scouting. I cannot find the answer by using both the internet and the Bible. Some things are just too mysterious and our understanding is too limited. So we need to be careful not to resort to superstition when attempting to resolve it.

 

FB