A Papal Rant

[Region 7 Voyageur]

Last Sunday I was driving home from a troop outing listening to the radio and the news about the passing of John Paul II. My son said that all he really knew of the man was that he was old, had Parkinsons disease, was hunch over and mumbled. What a different image he has of the man than I did. I think of a vibrant energetic leader who seemed very approachable and loving. I was not a Roman Catholic when John Paul II was elected but I became one in the 1980s. The living faith and warmth that I saw in him (and John Paul I) seemed so much different to me than what I saw in Pope Paul VI. My thoughts of Pope Paul may have been a product of the anti-catholic bias that I grew up with. I admired John Paul II for being true to what he believed in but always keeping dialogue with those he disagreed or had differences with. Many have wished for more reforms in the church but much of what he did would have been unthinkable to the church fifty years ago. What other pope has had so much interaction with the Orthodox Church, the Lutherans, the Church of England, Jews and Muslims? Though many said that is was too little too late; apologizing for past Catholic Church mistakes was a very difficult and honorable thing for a pope to do.

[acco40]

"Youth are a treasure. I think of your method, your educational program, and that to be a Scout means to be close to nature, to appreciate its beauty, to understand its creation, and to respect mankind." - Pope John Paul II

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Pope John Paul II did not win me over to Catholicism. I disagreed with many of his policies. I saw him only from a distance even when he traveled to the USA. I read little of his writings. I have always regarded the Catholic Church and the hierarchy as some kind of a big business with huge ornamented buildings with little use other than an occasional festivity.

 

With all of my many flaws, even I can still recognize greatness and appreciate it when I see it. He possessed such qualities in abundance.

 

 

FB

[OneHour]

The irony of all ironies occured during the Pope's funeral yesterday. All nations' leaders sat in alpha order. Isareal's president sat next to Iran's and in the back of him is Syria's. During "peace and goodwill" wishes (sorry I don't remember the Catholics' term for it) after communion, they shook each other's hands. As the reporter pointed out, in death, the Pope brought peace to the region eventhough it existed within that small space.

[blade1158]

FB,

What is your opinion of the Roman Catholic Church based on? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

As a practicing Roman Catholic I must say that I found Blades reply far more offensive than anything that FB said. I really do not see the need to criticize anyone for not understanding any religion. There are many Jews who do not fully understand Judaism, Catholics-Catholicism, and Islamics-Islam. Faith and religion is a personal journey for each us who makes the choice to walk the path.

 

Atheists do not believe there is a path.

Agnostics do not believe that anyone can prove that a path actually leads anywhere, so they see no need to walk it.

 

But for the rest of us, why does my path have to be better than yours. If you saw the interviews with Gilbert Levine the "Pope's conductor" then you heard how Levine, a non practicing Jew was motivated by the Pontiff to look deeper into his Jewish faith. He said the Pope never tried to get him to step toward Catholicism. Levine had a faith he simple needed to practice it, and that is all the Pope ever urged him to do.

 

If the head of our church felt the most important thing was to influence people to grow deeper in their own faith than why would that not be true of the rest of us?

 

There are no recruiter patches in religion so as scouters why try to earn them?

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Blade,

 

I base my opinion on the Catholic Church from what I have observed from a distance. I have never been a member and I know very little about it other than what I stated. I have always heard only negative things from the Protestant Church and from many who used to be in the Catholic Church over the years.

 

The Pope was a person that rose far and above anything that I have ever known about the Catholic Church. He touched my heart.

 

 

FB

[Bob White]

What made Karol Wojtyla a great Pope is the same thing that makes some people great scout leaders. He understood the program he was entrusted with and followed it as closely as he could.

[busylady]

OGE--

 

Many of the enmities JP II had hoped to heal are literally 1000's of years old.

 

But, if in life he talked with these people, and in his death they came together and even shook hands . . .

 

Can we think of it as a start?

[blade1158]

FB,

as I suspected, ignorance with a touch of bigotry. I suggest you educate yourself about the Catholic Church before you say derogatory things about it. Don't get your information about the church from those who are against it in the first place. If you want to know about the Church go to the source, buy a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and start reading.

 

Your original post is akin to me saying that all Evangelicals are inbred redneck Bible thumpers. I have chosen to learn about what Evangelicals believe so that I can respect them and agree with much of what they stand for, especially from a moral and social stand point, and even learn from their fervor and love of Scripture. Would it hurt you to do the same in regards to the Catholic Church?

 

BW,

I don't criticize lack of understanding, I criticize foolish statements born of lack of knowledge.

[Bob White]

Blade

Why could not respect the fact that evangelicals faith was different than yours, and respect them simply because they too believed in God. There are an awful lot of different religions out there, does each need to wait for you to read up on them before they can expect you to act respectfully toward them?

 

 

[busylady]

Ah, OGE,

 

If Blade can't model civility and charity towards another Christian, essentially a brother with common religious ground,

 

I despair for JP II's efforts and wishes for us to work together towards ending the world's ills . . .

[packsaddle]

Actually, many agnostics DO see the need to walk the path (assuming that 'the path' is a metaphor for seeking some spiritual meaning). They simply are uncertain of which path or how to walk it, and yes - possibly questioning whether there is a path, but they are open to the idea.

[Bob White]

Being open to an idea is not believing, besides that is only part of the equation. If you look at the definition of agnostic it's just that they cannot believe one way or another, they don't see how anyone can believe one way or another. How can a person who feels that way be expected to help others learn Duty to God, or Reverence?

 

 

 

[Vicki]

BW, the essence of an agnostic is that he or she maintains that the existence of a higher power cannot be proven. This does not preclude belief/faith, as I have posted in the Atheist Leader thread. There are two kinds of agnostics - atheistic agnostics and theistic agnostics. The latter are the ones to which I refer.

 

Vicki