Would Christ Want This?

[bettystevens]

I would like you to help me get the word out to boycott the photographer Athen Grey. He photographs models, and recently posted some pictures on his web site, in which one of his models is portrayed as Christ. In and of itself, it's not so bad, but he has depicted our Lord as a male stripper, hanged on a cross, with a nun putting dollar bills in the band of his underwear. If that wasn't bad enough, the model (Christ) has an erection in which an anonymous hand is reaching to touch. It's disgusting, blasphemous, and pornographic. This type of 'art' has no place in our society, not only corrupting the weak, but influencing the minds of our children. If you want to see the atrocity before warning other Christians, go to www.maleperfection.net; the model is Peyton W.

 

Your Sister in Christ, Betty Stevens

 

[Trevorum]

I don't see what this has to do with Scouting, but welcome to the forum anyway, Betty.

[NJCubScouter]

Assuming for the moment that I were inclined to "boycott" this photographer, it would be difficult to do because I have never heard of him or his work in the first place. Until, that is, I read your post telling me about him. I guess I just don't visit the kinds of web sites or art exhibits where I might see this sort of thing. I strongly suspect the same is true of the vast majority of participants in this forum.

 

As a result, a whole lot of people who might never have heard of these photographs now have, because of you. You might want to think about that.

[packsaddle]

Well, I've heard of him. From a news article with a slightly calmer tone about it. Welcome to the forum!

 

I agree with NJCubScouter. Your response may serve only to call further attention to the object of your contempt and that may be counterproductive to your perspective.

An additional twist to consider is the fact that the author (artist?) has successfully captured your attention and caused a rather strong emotional reaction. I doubt that you intended to give him such power over your mood and thoughts.

 

However, to answer the question in the title of the thread, didn't Jesus say something about turning the other cheek? I am reminded of the old "sticks and stones" verse.

 

Sacrilege is something that could possibly get a person tossed out of a church. But that's about as much as can be done, I think rightly.

My response to this stuff:

If a law hasn't been broken, let the market decide. If it has artistic merit it will survive. If not, the market will do as I do and quietly ignore it - the worst sort of death for such products.

[frank10]

Some times you don't know what you really believe until some one does some thing that goes against it.

[bettystevens]

My concern is that a lot of people must know about Mr. Grey. Not only does he have the ability to affect us and our children through his web site, he also has coffee table books, calendars, and a clothing line with these images available. He can infultrate every corner of our existence with his works of 'art'. If you type "Athen Grey" into Yahoo or Google, especially Google, page upon page come up. What other sneaky keywords might he have that he may pop up in other unexpected searches?

 

I was merely looking for a photographer to take a family portrait when I stumbled across Mr. Grey's site. If he deceived me, how easily can he deceive others?

[danmorelock]

I have been reading these forums for quite some time, and this is the first time I felt compelled to sign up and respond.

 

If Ms. Stevens is truly sincere about her crusade, she is merely shooting herself in the foot by giving viewers so much information about the photographer, i.e., curiosity killed the cat. I went, I paid $2.95 for the trial version, I saw.

 

That being said, our world has been inundated with art forms that depict much more graphic detail and violence, than does Athen Grey's. I rather enjoyed his visual commentary on religion, and the church in general (e.g., the priest puppeteering a Christ figure, and Christ wearing a crown of Christmas tree lights. It's freedom of expression, and Athen has every right to pursue that, so long as he doesn't break the law. No laws have been broken. You also, Ms. Stevens, have the freedom of choice, which means you can choose never to look at Athen's photography again.

 

If this whole post this is a scam/spam, it's sheer genius, and it's been used hundreds of times before. There's nothing like stirring sales by creating a controversy, and what better way than a nice Christian woman wanting to boycott the evil photographer.

 

Ms. Stevens, if you ARE sincere, I would recommend quietly praying for Athen, with all your Christian soul, instead of driving us to the source of your dismay.(This message has been edited by danmorelock)

[DugNevius]

How is him selling books and calanders "Infultrating"? You arent buying them thinking its Care Bear books, getting home and being shocked. If you dont like it, dont buy it. Thats the wonderful thing about this country. If you WANT pics of christ like this you can get it and if you dont then you dont buy it. There is no deceiption here at all.

 

From what i see here, the only infultrating thus far has been a lobbiest promoting her beliefs in a Boy Scout message board uninvited. So you like censorship, good for you, im sure there are plenty of corners to peddle that.

[danmorelock]

I think we're missing an opportunity to discuss something of relevance: Is it art, and does Athen have a valid commentary on religion and the Catholic church (assuming it's Catholic because of the nun).

 

My interpretation of the nun/cross picture is that the Catholic church, one of the richest organizations in the world, is corrupt in handling their money and assigning sin to the publich on topics that its own priests are participating in (the obscured hand reaching for the penis of male dancer/Christ). The hand of the nun is open, leaving interpretation open to whether she's putting money in the underwear of Christ, or taking it from Him. Also, the nun's hand/arm is just far enough away, almost disconnected, as if she's only watching what is going on, and taking no action herself.

 

The picture of a dismayed Christ wearing a crown of Christmas tree lights, instead of thorns, speak strongly to the commercializm of the Christian holidays.

 

In the picture of the priest puppeteering Christ, it suggests that the ordained are minipulating us by positioning Christ as they see fit.

 

The picture of Christ, with a tattoo of Himself on his back and the phrase, "Last time you hung me; this time around I'm just hung" has me a bit baffled. I'd be curious what others think.

 

Mind you, these are only my interpretations, and I pose them to see what others' opinions are.(This message has been edited by danmorelock)

[Trevorum]

This is interesting, but I suggest you take it to an art forum or a religion forum. It has nothing to do with Scouting.

[danmorelock]

If I'm not mistaken, the Scouts' roots are deeply embedded in Christianity, where they began. In current day and age, the Scout may consider themselves non-sectular, but they can't shake their past. Besides, boycotting art and entertainment, censorship, and freedom of speech IS relevant to scouting. Are you suggesting that these topics are not of value to the youth of today? That they should not learn about them and form their own opinions? As adults, don't we have an obligation in inform today's children so they can make educated decisions in the future when they are running our country. Personally, I think the view that this is not the proper forum to be discussing such issues is as narrow-minded as the views of Ms. Stevens, who started this thread.

[Trevorum]

Hey OGE, can we do something here? (I'll stop feeding the trolls now ...)

[Proud Eagle]

Not to offend anyone but...

 

W T F

 

Can we just make this stop and go away?

 

By the way, this mess (I have decided just to trust people's descriptions, no reason to become another "hit" on this person's webcounter) does violate one law of importance to people here:

 

The Scout Law.

 

I do not see how such a display is respectful of the beliefs of others. In fact it would seem calculated to insult and mock.

 

Again though, can we just make this go away? It isn't relevant in any way and it would be best if this just died.

[bluegoose]

Proud Eagle-

Your answer is human nature. We cannot (or will not) just let it die because once something has been said, people have the desire to make their personal thoughts known. There have been other discussions that I think would be better if they were gone, but that is not the way of things. I am reminded of a person that I know who, when a bucket of wax caught on fire, he tossed water on it. His intent was to put the fire out, but as I'm sure many of you can guess, he only added fuel to it. For those of you who aren't aware, I am a very symbolic person, and many of my thoughts have a deeper meaning to them. I personally agree with Danmorelock, and feel that this piece of art (remember, the artist had artistic influence) can by of a symbolic and possible satirical meaning. Or it could be meant to be taken at face value. Or maybe both. I think the best way to find the answer would be to ask the creator. I welcome any thoughts that all of you might have. Remember, the price of freedom is that we carry not a shield, but only a sword.

 

May peace be with you always...

[ozemu]

Yours in Scouting is a more appropriate ending to posts I think. I like Barryś sign off and even Edś although the references are not oneś I look up. Ed uses his Scouting position as well and so I see his referenceś as a sort of smiley face.

 

But Betty you have signed off with a specific idea in mind. It is not a greeting to other Scouts. In this forum we are all Scouts or passionately interested in the future of Scouting. But nowhere do you mention Scouts or Scouting in either post.

 

and you are not my sister (or Sister) in anything....because Im not christian.

 

I am a Scout though so how can we help you?

 

Are you involved with a Scouting unit that is doing something exciting or can we help you improve Scouting where you are? Maybe you are a Merit Badge counsellor? Or a Scouting parent? Or you were once a Scout or Scouter?