ACLU threat causes Boy Scouts to drop public school ties

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

The Boy Scouts knew this would happen; check out the oral arguments in Dale v. BSA:

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/resources.html?record=963

...

QUESTION: May I ask also whether it makes any difference in the balance that the Court strikes that the Scouts are a federally chartered institution and that Government entities such as schools and fire departments and police departments and so on sponsor troop units? Does that make a difference, particularly if the governmental unit itself takes the position that it would disagree with this determination that the Boy--

 

MR. DAVIDSON: Let me answer both of those questions in order. As to the Federal charter, virtually everything conducted in the corporate forum is necessarily chartered by a Government entity and, as this Court said in the Gay Olympic Games case, San Francisco Arts and Athletics, that doesn't deprive a corporation of its private character.

 

With respect to Government sponsorship, everybody who sponsors a Scout troop signs on to follow Scouting's values and procedures. If, for political or legal reasons, they shouldn't be doing that, their remedy is to not continue to support Scouting.

 

QUESTION: Well, I must say, I found it somewhat difficult to assess the relevance of this web of relations that the Boy Scouts have in New Jersey with schools and fire departments. I'm puzzled about what weight, if any, to give to that.

 

If you prevail on your First Amendment argument here, and you prevail in this case, do you think the schools and the fire departments (a) would be permitted, or (b) required, under New Jersey law, to sever their relations with the Scouts?

 

MR. DAVIDSON: Well, with respect to the-- we have governments that are begging Scouting to go into Cabrini Green housing projects, and to have cub packs at women's prisons, but Scouting itself has pulled back considerably from goverment, taking the Career Awareness Exploring Program back and making it a nonmembership activity which doesn't involve oaths or membership or anything like that, so that many police and fire departments are no longer sponsoring Scouting units, because that's been moved over to Learning for Life.

 

But I'm not sure if Your Honor was based on, as a matter of New Jersey law, or a matter of constitutional law.

 

QUESTION: Well, no one thinks that-- or has suggested that this makes you a State actor, so I think the Fourteenth Amendment is out, but just as a matter of New Jersey law it would seem to me that the schools and the fire departments, to comply with the New Jersey law as interpreted by the supreme court, would have to sever the relation. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

MR. DAVIDSON: Justice Kennedy, that may well be.

 

QUESTION: Are they places of public accommodation? I don't know. I-- if you--

 

MR. DAVIDSON: Justice Scalia, Kansas has held that a school is not a place of public accommodation, but there's authority in other States the other way. I don't know of any New Jersey authority.

 

QUESTION: Anyway, your point is if Government giving any assistance to the Scouts is a problem, you'd rather, no thank you, not have the assistance than have to change your policies.

 

MR. DAVIDSON: Right. The Scouts have said many times that their policies are not for sale, and if it costs the sponsorship, well that's-- so be it.

...

[packsaddle]

A calculated move, an inevitable result. BSA is getting exactly what they expected.

[fgoodwin]

packsaddle, you give Irving far too much credit.

 

If this was BSA's desired result, do you really think ACLU would've played along, to further BSA's ultimate goal?

 

I've heard some wild conspiracy theories in my day, but this one takes the cake . . .

[packsaddle]

In case fgoodwin's response doesn't seem to make sense, I believe he is responding to a post I made in another thread that resembles this one (ACLU strategy will backfire).

Fgoodwin, that was written tongue-in-cheek. I guess I should have expected that someone might take it seriously. Sorry.

[evmori]

What does the Dale case have to do with atheists? Dale was removed because he was a homosexual.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

BSA may have believed that Congress would find some way to save them from having to give up government charter organizations--and there has been some (minimal) effort to do that. Personally, I don't think it would have worked, but it's hard to predict what courts will do. But it's now become clear that Congress is not willing to do much, so perhaps BSA has decided to throw in the towel on this issue.

In terms of BSA getting what it wanted, I think it's fair to say--and the lawyer for BSA did say--that maintaining its membership requirements was more important than maintaining government unit sponsorship. BSA's latest action shows that this really is true.