Be_Prepared Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Tonight, on the NBC Nightly News, the "Fleecing of America" section will be about the Boy Scouts - the situation in Alabama, and the recent report in Atlanta about ghost troops and phantom scouts regarding inflated numbers of inner-city scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 That time would be better spent talking about fleece jackets. I'll make sure I don't watch it. But, thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Scoutalot Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Thanks for the heads up. Will be interested to see if anyone from national or the councils involved tell their side. If there's anything to this, it will be a poor reflection on the trustworthiness of the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 If the allegations in Alabama prove to be true, lets not get to upset. Any organizaiton made by man and run by man will be subject to human fraility. The way I hear it, most major cities in our country have depts in their police depts. called "internal Affairs" whose sole purpose is to detect crimes committed by those who are sworn to serve and protect, and they are kept quite busy, doesnt mean every cop is dirty or that there is a major problem. Ever wonder how many catholic priests never did assault, abuse or otherwise pester anyone? Dirty laundry gets the press, if we press on with good programs things will resolve itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Quote: Thanks for the heads up. Will be interested to see if anyone from national or the councils involved tell their side. If there's anything to this, it will be a poor reflection on the trustworthiness of the organization... Sir Scoutalot The councils mentioned are not the only one's inflating the numbers, and cooking the books...I've a sense that this is fairly widespread due to available HUD dollars for inner city programs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I think we're better off watching - painful though it might be. We stress the Scout Law to our boys - do we stress it enough to ourselves? I don't think we need an IAD, but we need to be aware of who we are as a group, and the standards we've set. What are WE (BSA) doing about this issue and Scouters who, so obviously, don't live up to the Scout Law? Which youth oriented programs were shortchanged by Scouting taking money it didn't deserve? It will be hard to convince others of our high values if we regard thieves as "better" ("more Scoutish") people than athiests and homosexuals. Certainly someone is going to throw back into our faces some phrase about "not picking and choosing which parts of the Scout Law we live up to". How many bumper stickers about Values can we print, if we can't back them up with our Actions? We're all responsible, at least in some small way. We at least have the responsibility to make sure it's not happening around us. If we don't watch, how can we learn enough to keep it from happening again? jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Ditto. In our unit we preach to the boys that especially when they are in uniform, they represent all of BSA. The impression they make does not reflect just on them, but on the whole program. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole barrel or at least make all the other apples suspect. Hopefully the scout oath and law is being observed from the top down and back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Scoutalot Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Why do I feel like I'm glad that was a two minute segment on Nightly News rather than a 20 minute segment on Dateline? Based on some previous posts on the board and the lack of a scouting professional on camera to refute the claims in the story, I can only assume it must be happening at some level. Does anyone out there know if the councils involved have issued any statements of explanation or are they pretty much busted? Oh well, still the world's greatest youth program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 This wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Though I'm not convinced there isn't another shoe out there, dropping on our heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troop891 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 There is an official response on the National Council website at http://www.scouting.org/media/membership/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreaScouter Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Whoever wrote that press release at National has not been near a unit, or a District registrar, in a long time if ever. The release said that SSNs are not collected on youth members. Horsefeathers! Look at the current youth application, and what's right under the boxes for the lad's first name? You guessed it, the SSN! Even Jimmy Olson, cub reporter, will have the sense to get hold of one of our applications, if for no other reason to poke holes in National's statement. Doesn't anybody proof those things in Irving before they go out, or are they all too busy shrinking the cargo pockets on our uniform pants? (Sorry, still stinging over the $45 I shelled out last week for a new pair...had to work it into my rant) KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Having followed this story, my understanding is that one example of the fraud is that there was almost an entire troop made up of "John Doe". I don't remember the exact number. Having been involved in accounting and/or auditing for a number of years, I will lay you odds (whoops, no gambling intended) that there is an expense account out there with some falsified expense reports for miscellaneous stuff that actually went to cover minimum registration fees for the non-existent troop. Talking to an ex-DE friend of mine, he says the pressure is enormous to "make their numbers". Jobs depend on it. It's too easy to measure numbers and much harder to establish metrics that measure how well the program is administered. But numbers are not the story and shouldn't be. Again, as an accountant, I can tell you that even with all the controls in the world in place it is still possible to figure out a way to embezzle or defraud. You may or may not get caught (or you may think you won't get caught). But internal controls at least stop the easy stuff, like troops of John Doe. Let me preface my next statement by saying that I believe in the importance of honesty at almost any cost and I have been honest in situations where it cost me dearly. But it's just not reasonable to put that much pressure on people and then make it easy for them to be dishonest. If it were your mortgage on the line (as in losing your job)? It's putting unfair temptation in their way. On the SSN issue - just because an application asks for it doesn't mean you have to give it. I gave the BSA mine because they needed it for the background check. They don't have either of my son's SSN's. Vicki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I thought the NBC piece was fair and balanced. I did not feel that it had a negative connotation. NBC could have easily used different words and turned it into a very bad piece of BSA history. We should all appreciate that it was handled well. The response from National appears to me to be VERY defensive. With the action that occurred in Texas in 2000, I would be very surprised if the National people were not (and have not) been on the lookout for this kind of thing nationwide. After all, if it happened in their backyard, it was likely to happen elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Bear Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 The BSA's number's crunch will remain a sore spot, make them defensive and continue to make problems, until they admit that they have created the problem and retreat from it. It would be much easier to teach professionals how to encourage recruiting through insuring good program in every district. People respond to good program at a fair price. The BSA has potentially one of the very best programs anywhere. I am not sure that they know it. FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 As an aside ... I just went through Internet recharter, using the download from ScoutNet. The hardcopy app (latest edition) has a spot for youth SSN, but the online data entry form did not. I had to input SSN only for the adults. ~~~~~ Returning to topic ... integrity matters. It matters when we go out and do corporate FOS pitches. It matters when we go out and do family FOS pitches. If I cannot trust the non-profit for something as foolish as padding the membership, then why should I trust them with my charitable/philanthropic contributions? If the report is substantiated, then the folks in that Alabama Council have done nothing to help the Scouting movement. YIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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