Disturbing news from Philly, not Scout related

[Rooster7]

BadenP,

 

Your post was as I expected. No argument, just more of the same insults and insinuations. Your approach to debate is a cowardly one. Ive asked you twice now - to come forward with your purported expertise and demonstrate your assertions. And twice youve responded with the same type of posts. I think most, perhaps even those that dislike my views, can see past your veneer. If youre going to spew garbage, at least have the courtesy to face me (intellectually and morally speaking) like a man. Dont hide behind pusillanimous and hollow statements such as these:

 

I could pick your arguments apart, but to what end because you truly do not understand scripture other than on a very superficial level.

 

While I enjoy a good debate - Ive always tried to show restraint in that I aim to keep my responses on topic and not directed at the person. Now there are some on this board that would say I have failed in that regard. And perhaps I have on occasion. Do I pull any punches? No, I am very passionate in my beliefs and I defend them earnestly. But I find it highly remarkable, that you as a self-proclaimed minister, have aggressively tried to discredit my character and taint my arguments by building a straw man of someone that is arrogant and judgmental, without any show of concern as to who I truly am. Your behavior belies your position in argument, and as a religious authority.

 

Seemingly, as we both believe in the same God - we will find out soon enough as to who misrepresented our Lord and His Word. Life is short. I remember day dreaming in school about the year 2000 and what life will be like then. 35 years later - a blink of the eye in retrospect, here I sit in 2005 at 46 years of age. In another blink (if Im so blessed), I will be sitting before God. With that said, I am convinced that I have wasted enough time on this board bickering with the likes of you.

 

As you no doubt will respond with yet another malicious retort that attacks me instead my arguments, I will let you have the last wordwhich apparently is your goal in life. Dont blink we may meet again one day.

 

[evmori]

Merlyn,

I don't lie and I don't appreciate being called a liar. Not only is it crude, it is down right wrong. You don't know me well enough to make that kind of character judgment. I don't agree with you most of the time but I don't call you a liar. We are all entitled to our opinion. And that is exactly what I have posted - my opinion. If you are taking that as fact then you are reading something into my posts that isn't there.

 

No I don't like the ACLU. That is a fact! Not my opinion.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

OGE, you can come to our town and yell at us from a street corner any ol' time. Always nice to have a new face around.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes:

I don't lie and I don't appreciate being called a liar.

 

Perhaps you can explain how "Don't expect the ACLU to get involved. They only support atheists when their rights are stepped on" is something other than a lie, then. You can't justify it by saying it's your "opinion," because it's about a matter of fact - you're falsely claiming the ACLU only supports the rights of atheists, which is easily shown to be wrong. Nothing can be a "lie" if any statement can be claimed to be an opinion, which makes the whole distinction between true and false ridiculous.

 

Stop whining.

[Hunt]

Merlyn, by talking about a "false dichotomy" (which isn't false at all), you are dodging the real question: are you simply trolling this message board? A troll can be defined as follows:

 

"An individual who posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait." (Definition slightly edited to remove even more pejorative language.)

 

If you aren't trying to persuade anybody to your point of view, then I think your approach here pretty well fits into that description. I think you know that calling people "liars" is not really going to help you support your arguments here--it's really a "flame." Certainly, I find it annoying, and obviously Ed does too. So let's put it this way--why don't you explain what your purpose in posting here is, and how your rhetorical style helps you fulfill that purpose? Or to put it even more bluntly, you might want to explain why we shouldn't ask the moderators to ban you for trolling.

[evmori]

Hunt,

You are so right! Merlyn is annoying! That is a fact!

 

Merlyn,

My post is my opinion of what I think the ACLU will do. And I must be on track since they didn't get involved! I never posted "the ACLU only supports atheist rights". I don't feel the ACLU supports my rights and I'm a Christian!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, you posted

 

"Don't expect the ACLU to get involved. They only support atheists when their rights are stepped on."

 

now you say the above expresses your opinion, can you explain how I can tell your words are an opinion, and not an assertion of fact (as you understand them) in the future?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Hunt writes:

Merlyn, by talking about a "false dichotomy" (which isn't false at all), you are dodging the real question: are you simply trolling this message board?

 

Hunt, a false dichotomy is where only two alternatives are given as if they encompass all possibilities; your false dichotomy was "you would care if you were really participating here in order to persuade people of your point of view. If, on the other hand, you are simply trolling this message board, I can see why you wouldn't care. Which is it?"

 

You're setting up a false dichotomy that either 1) I somehow MUST care that calling someone a liar is rude, and should refrain from doing so in order to persuade people to my point of view, or 2) I'm just trolling. You only give me two possible choices with "Which is it?"

 

That's a false dichotomy -- "false" because it doesn't include all possibilities, but claims to do so. And you go on to illustrate WHY false dichotomies are fallacies, because you try to use it to show that I'm not doing (1) so I must be (2), trolling.

 

But (2) does not follow, because you used a false dichotomy to get there.

 

For your information, I don't answer false dichotomies; it's like trying to answer "have you stopped beating your wife?" The whole basis of the question is wrong, and the best response is to point out that the question itself is based on a fallacy.

 

And in two days, it will be exactly three years ago when I first posted here and brought up the problems with public schools as chartering partners, and according to scoutldr's recent post, the BSA has finally realized that such an arrangement wouldn't survive a legal challenge. I'm hardly trolling when I'm right.

[evmori]

OGE,

You are just going to have to take my word for it! Did the ACLU step in? No. Why? Because they wanted to investigate further? Good dodge! I think it's because they don't want to be involved when there is nothing to gain for themselves!

 

Merlyn,

Your being right is a false dichotomy! And have you stopped beating your wife?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[firstpusk]

"Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms."

 

Ed, can you explain how your response to Merlyn relates to that verse you have chosen?

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

And in two days, it will be exactly three years ago when I first posted here...

 

Change that to "exactly four years ago".

[Hunt]

Merlyn's "response" to my question is typical behavior for someone who is trolling a message board--avoidance. He doesn't claim that he is trying to persuade anyone of his point of view--because he isn't. The fact that he thinks he's "right" about his point of view is really irrelevant to whether his purpose here was to persuade or to annoy. He makes no excuses for his rude behavior, because the rude behavior is really the point for somebody who is trolling.

I looked back at Merlyn's first posts here, and they weren't too bad. His approach has gotten more shrill and bitter over the years, even though gradually BSA has moved more and more out of being sponsored by public schools and other public entities. Now they're out of military sponsorships, and it looks like BSA is saying they will move out of public sponsorship entirely. But this doesn't seem to make Merlyn particularly happy. I don't know if this applies to him, but I suppose some people thought that losing public sponsorship would be more damaging to BSA than it has been and will be--maybe some thought the threat of losing the sponsorship would cause BSA to change its membership policies. Obviously, that didn't happen. So now we'll have a BSA that continues to be strong, that isn't entangled with governments, and that can continue to set whatever membership requirements it chooses to as a private organization. I can imagine that this turn of events would be frustrating to some people.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Hunt, I called you a liar way back when you falsely stated that I would argue that government facilities can't offer access to groups that discriminate. Since that is the complete opposite of my actual position I called you a liar.

 

And you can't seem to get over it. You keep bringing up the fact that I called you a liar. Now you're whining and trying to get me banned as if I'm trolling, because I'm "rude" enough to call people liars when they lie.

[Hunt]

Note that Merlyn doesn't actually deny trolling. What his post really points out, I guess, is that I have allowed myself to be "troll bait" and I have let a troll's rude tactics get under my skin. In my defense, I held my peace for a long time, until Merlyn started calling others liars as well. (I do find it pretty rich that he criticizes somebody else for "whining." Oh well.)

Generally, it advised not to "feed the troll" by responding to provocative posts, but it's often hard to resist. I'll try to do better.

[evmori]

firstpusk,

What is your point?