The War debate in the troop

[dan]

Can someone please tell me how you have your children share the same philosophy as me! Subliminal messages? Play recorded messages in their rooms while they are sleeping?

I have a son that is more conservative than I, and a liberal daughter. You should hear these 2 debate!

[packsaddle]

As Ronald Reagan famously said, "There you go again...." So here I go again. Labels are not a substitute for knowledge or understanding. Actually I suppose they are a substitute in one sense, if there is little actual knowledge or understanding. Anyway, they obscure real dialogue or debate if they are used counterproductively. Here I admit that I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.

 

Eamonn, go ahead, take that role and then listen for me to say, "I'll get you my pretty... and your little dog too!" Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[VAordeal]

thanks all of you! Your words were very helpful! I can see why my adult leaders stay away now! And to the guy who mentioned the prayer to St. Francis, i know it by heart but its message is forgotten very easily indeed! On a side note, this is the first "big" post i have ever created on a message board and i belong to quite a few. I feel special! Thanks again for your words. One thing has just made my situation much easier though, the kid in my troop who is a vocal and active communist quit. Any debate we have now is 10 times less heated and fiery.

[scoutingagain]

I've come to the conclusion VA Ordeal could teach the rest of us something about civil discussion of politics.

 

SA

[boleta]

I REALLY like the idea of setting up a formal debate for the Troop. What a great idea. It would teach them how to organize their thoughts about this issue and help to discuss it in a civil and controlled fashion. Isn't there a Merit Badge that would cover this?

 

(This message has been edited by boleta)

[boleta]

Hey!!!

 

I didn't label anyone or criticise them. I didn't disagree with anyone or contradict them. I have enjoyed the discussion about labels.

 

When the label becomes derogatory in nature and is used for political purposes, then one is insulted by it and tends to want to avoid it. That is just human nature. You can still call me liberal and I can defend it.

 

 

[packsaddle]

boleta, I agree. The problem with such labels is that if we closely examine most individuals, we are unlikely to find a perfect match for whatever stereotype we attach to that label. Attaching such labels to those persons, to me, indicates an unwillingness to really listen to what they say and consider their ideas, whatever they may be. But it is the easy thing to do and the boys are very susceptible to it.

When someone applies a label to me, I think that I (and my ideas) have been dismissed as unimportant, and not worthy of their time or attention. Therefore, applying the golden rule, I try to avoid this practice when interacting with others. If the boys are having aguments over some issue, I try to keep them from engaging in the practice as well.

 

OGE, Churchill obviously looked more like Yoda, except for that cigar.

[OldGreyEagle]

I would venture to say that Yoda's cane would have been roughtly the same length as Churchill's cigar

 

BTW,why did Yoda walk with a cane when he could float with the carpet thingie?

[packsaddle]

OGE, good question. I suppose, as it seems to be with many people, especially those with power over others, Yoda was engaging in a deception. Like the one where he didn't tell Luke about his sister...you never know where that tangled web will lead. But it rarely ever ends.

[NJCubScouter]

On the "Yoda issue," could it have something to do with the fact that in the first trilogy Yoda was a Muppet, and in the second trilogy Yoda is a computer-generated image? In Episodes V and VI (the first trilogy) muppet-Yoda's movements are fairly limited -- walking with a cane, wacking Luke over the head with it a few times, clenching his face to lift Luke's ship out of the swamp, that sort of thing. Twenty years later (in our time, not Star Wars time), CGI-Yoda's movements are basically unlimited. He can ride above the ground without the ugly special-effects "artifacts" that litter the original versions of the first trilogy. (If you ever watched that documentary on the making of the "special editions" of the first trilogy, where George Lucas "cleaned up" many of the special-effects problems seen in the original versions, you will know what I am talking about.) He can also do that battle scene from Episode II, where he fights Christopher Lee with the light saber, which would have been impossible (or very, very expensive) with muppet-Yoda.

 

Sorry, I know that's not very interesting. And you don't want to get me started on why the Klingons in the later Star Trek series and movies look so different from the Klingons in the original series.

[OldGreyEagle]

"And you don't want to get me started on why the Klingons in the later Star Trek series and movies look so different from the Klingons in the original series."

 

What, they didnt have evolution on planet Kling? Talk about a political issue

 

[NJCubScouter]

What, they didnt have evolution on planet Kling? Talk about a political issue

 

Ha ha.

 

I don't want to turn this into a Star Trek forum, but I can't resist answering this. Evolution would be one thing, but the first appearance of "new look" Klingons was in the first "Star Trek" movie, which is supposed to take place about five years (I think) after the end of the "original five year mission." Evolution does not take place that fast, in any quadrant of the galaxy. And now with the new series "Enterprise," we are seeing "new look" Klingons in the 22nd century -- about 100 years BEFORE the setting of the original series. So you have "new look" Klingons in the late 22nd, late 23rd and late 24th centuries, and "old look" Klingons in mid-23rd century. And in "Deep Space Nine" (a 24th century series) we saw some of the SAME CHARACTERS who had the "old look" in the original series, now, as old men, with the "new look." Evolution indeed.

 

The real reason for all this, which is why I brought it up in the changing-Yoda connection, is that the makeup budget (and the amount of thought that went into the makeup) for a perpetually-failing tv series in the 1960's was nowhere near what it was for a major movie in the 70's, or for a series in the 80's that was widely expected to be (and was) a success.

 

They even upgraded the name of the planet. It was called Kling in the old series, but in the Next Generation and since then, it was "Qu'nos," although my Klingonese spelling is a little rusty.

[Zahnada]

The first movie takes place only five years after the last episode? Wow, Scotty sure didn't age well.

 

And by the way (I only say this because we're in the Issues and Politics forum) the first movie was HORRIBLE!! Meanwhile, the Wrath of Khan is one of my favorite movies of all time. It's great! And who ever suspected that ending? It's very "Enemy Below" but in space.

[VAordeal]

its funny how threads evolve! lol! Again, thanks for the advice.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

In the DS9 episode where they went back to the old Star Trek episode "The Trouble with Tribbles," they have both the old-style Klingons and Worf. When his crewmates ask him about why the Klingons look different, Worf says "We don't talk about that." A two-part Enterprise story coming up on Feb 18 and 25 is supposed to explain it: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=30020