Scandal in Alabama?

[Sylvar]

I just saw this:

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=6&u=/ap/20050125/ap_on_re_us/boy_scouts_investigation

 

I don't see how they could pull this off with out it being someone at the top. In our council the units get grilled over every new addition/change to membership.

 

Sylvar

 

[packsaddle]

I suspect this is merely a local problem, not something that pervades the organization. And although I do not have an in-depth knowledge of council workings, from what I do understand I can easily envision how one or just a few persons could pull this deception and remain undetected, at least for a while. But it isn't evidence of great intelligence by the perps, is it?

[gungho4scouts]

With all of the attacks against BSA, I wouldn't be surprise if this was a tactic (though small) used to help deface the entire organization.

 

I've stumbled on a few websites, particularly "mothering.com", where several activist suggested joining the BSA just for the sake of creating havoc. I'm not subscribing to any conspiracy theory, but in today's world you can not discount the zealots.

 

From the articles I've read, it could simply be about boasting rights, greed on the part of the professional's, etc. To error is human and justice will prevail. Baden-Powell made it pointedly clear; for dishonor, you are stripped of your badge which you can never earn again.

 

Yes, I'm disappointed that something like this was allowed to happen. It just makes me more determined to be part of the process of making sure my Son gets the very best that the BSA has to offer.

 

As long as we believe in, obey and uphold the Scout's Law, BSA will be around for another 100 years!

[Trevorum]

I rather suspect that some SEs are under big pressure to report good numbers and cooking the books is the easiest or only way to do so. It's very sad that they have lost the big picture.

[acco40]

Gungho4scouts - you've got to be kidding right? You think this is some outside activist attempt to create havoc?

 

The BSA has had similar instances before. The professionals involved should all lose their jobs over such dishonesty. Think of the resources wasted by this - FBI man-hours, United Way Funds, federal grants (to a private discriminatory organization - another forum topic heating up), etc. I agree with Packsaddle, that this is an isolated case but when money gets involved, many do strange things. I'm in the process of re-chartering this month. I'll have to double check and make sure none of the Doe family are registered in our troop.

[Zahnada]

Well at least I'm fairly positive that the people responsible for this don't lie very often. It's just such a horrible lie. 20 people with the last name "Doe"? At least use "Smith" or "Williams" or something besides the standard name for a person without a name.

 

Also, I feel the real damage by this will be between BSA and their continually declining relationship with United Way. I know people in this forum like to complain about the United Way, but they are still a major donor to scouting. It sounds like they were giving quite a bit of money to the local Alabama council, but that will all be reevaluated now. And that's too bad. In an effort to secure more funding for the area, these people may have just lost a major donor. And who gets hurt by this? Always the boys.

[johndaigler]

Sadly, we are all diminished by this.

 

jd

[Proud Eagle]

This isn't surprising.

 

I know of people who were paid to provide names and personal information on people that were of the appropriate ages to be listed as youth on charters. This was years ago and the DE behind it has long since moved on, but it was a matter that they could create a fake unit, pay someone to find people to be paper members, and pay all the fees out of pocket, and still come out ahead because it would ensure his continued employment and probably a raise.

 

When you tie a persons continued employment to something like membership it leads to people taking the past of least resistance, particularly when they are in a bind and don't see a legitimate way of making the quota.

 

Again, this goes into that area of holding people responsible for things they cannot control.

 

It would be sort of like holding a meteorologist responsible for what kind of weather we get. He can't control it. All he can do is predict it, report on it, help people prepare for it, etc.

 

Or, to use a historical example from involving someone from my home town, Admiral Kimmel being held responsible for the disaster at Pearl Harbor was a similar instance. It wasn't his fault that he didn't have adequate intelligence, or that the intelligence he did received indicated he needed to guard against sabotage, not air attack. Add to that the fact he was forced to actually stop certain measures such as long range patrols because they cost too much, and it really isn't fare that he was blamed for what happened. Yet, he was held responsible for the destruction of the fleet.

 

In any case, those who did in this case do something wrong, should be drummed out. Someone must be held responsible for these acts, because someone had to actually go and report these fake members. That is a lie. If it is a professional, this should end their carreer. If it is a volunteer, then they are no longer needed. (Also, if a volunteer, someone needs to smack the registrar for not paying enough attention to notice this.)

 

Finally, why did the volunteer who noticed the mistake not find a way to get this cleared up in house? Why is the FBI involved in this? The council should have cleaned up its act, found out what went wrong, and then reported the findings to the United Way and others.

[Eamonn]

I had heard about this sad report, and make reference to it about a week ago in a thread about Popcorn and Quality District.

The sad thing is that it was brought to my attention by my Community FOS Chair. Then it seems that it was in a local newspaper that serves the other end of our Council.

It seems that John Doe is acceptable in some Scoutreach Units that would have a transient population.

I am almost sure this isn't something that un-friendly people have done, in fact I wish it was!!

I of course have no idea how a Council ends up in such a mess. What is bad is that people like my Chairman start to ask questions. I know that we in our District are not carrying any paper units and to the best of my knowledge all the youth members are real. I don't know what goes on in other districts, I really have a enough going on in my neck of the woods to spend time finding out.

Eamonn.

[fotoscout]

I think this is very conceivable.

 

With over zealous volunteers and over zealous professionals all looking for awards, promotions, and yes higher salaries, this type of thing is almost inevitable. I do think that it would be very difficult to sustain over some number of years and therefore I also think that the 30%-40% numbers cited in the article is greatly exaggerated.

 

Last year we had a thread about a DE or SE that wanted to go into some High School and sign up the entire school as a venture crew. Although this would not be an identical situation, it is certainly driven by the same through process. The only people registered in Scouting should be those who have an honest interest in the participating in the program.

 

Doing this type of thing is unconscionable, and fraudulent. No good can come of it. My congratulations to the gentlemen who brought this problem to light. We should all be so vigilant in carrying out our responsibilities.

 

[Eamonn]

I tend to agree with fotoscout.

With so much now riding on Quality and the quest to be Quality it is sad that some people forget that this is the BSA.

We had in our Council a Field Director that to put it very nicely was very creative.

I do feel that National was aware that some of the membership reports that they were receiving were less than accurate. I think this is way the 2% growth was done away with. This did close a lot of the loop holes and make it harder for unscrupulous people to cheat.

Depending on how Councils have set up their Scoutreach programs, Scoutreach has become the Mecca for cheating. I find it hard to believe that any volunteer Unit Leader would want to waste money registering non-existent members. Why would he or she want too?

The time for taking a long hard look at Quality has been needed for a very long time. The penalties for those who cheat should be very harsh.I have a friend in the National Office and he has a plan which as far as I know is just his idea, it spreads Quality over a 3 year period, with slightly different requirements.

Reaching Quality District, does require a DE to work very closely with the volunteers in the District. Over the last eight years we have missed being a QD only twice. I don't like not reaching goals and have been upset when we didn't make it. People at every level have said to me that you can't be quality every year. This year 2005 is going to be a very tough year. Last year we had every unit recharter, this year with the packs still to recharter we know that we have: One Crew that moved to another District,Two Crews that are gone, A Troop that has been dieing for a long time and might go this year, and a Special Needs Pack that isn't going to recharter.

That could leave us needing to start six new units.We have a couple of Crews that are really struggling.When I look at the Units that we are going to lose, I can't help but look at the two crews, these were units that were started to help the District make QD. They were started because "Crews are easy to start." Sure they were real and at the start there was an initial burst of enthusiasm, but it was very short lived. I am not proud when I think that the District was responsible for helping get these units off the ground, but no one at any level did anything to deliver the vision or the mission of the BSA to these kids. We were happy that they started, happier that they rechartered for 3 years. But it is really sad that we are sad not because there is a bunch of kids that aren't getting the program. We are sad because it is so darn inconvenient for us and that we will need to replace them.

We have a new young DE, who is already saying "Crews are easy." The Good Lord knows I am in no way holier than anyone, still I can't help thinking - Here we go again!!

Eamonn.

 

[BadenP]

It is like I have said before, National puts unrealistic expectations on the SE's and DE's, the practice of paper units is more widespread than you think. As a former senior DE I have witnessed DE's and SE's do some unscrupulous things, in my four years as a professional executive our council had three SE's, two were transferred for embezzling FOS funds and one was moved for overspending and putting the council in huge debt. Money and numbers are important in scouting but not to the point where they override the very principles of Scouting.

[johndaigler]

I was SOOOOOO ready to blame this on a couple of Dopes in Alabama, shake my head in dismay and move on.

 

I Really didn't want to hear these other stories!

 

Not to hide my head in the sand, nor to be critical of the tales above -- But, I'm just sitting here shaking my head. What are we doing, if as adults we can't live up to the expectations we put on the boys??????? . . .

 

 

 

Where's Bob White??? I want to talk to him about Scouting...about helping boys grow up...about obeying rules...about learning from teachers and non-teachers...

 

 

 

 

 

jd

[Proud Eagle]

I too would rather talk about making Scouting a better place for the Scouts.

 

However, the unfortunate truth is that we must from time to time have an airing of grievances to better things. After all, while we may need to do a better job for our own Scouts, what about the Scouts in paper units? or Scouts in a "lets start a new unit to meet the quality district" troop? They also deserve a chance to receive the benefits of Scouting.

 

Until something is changed an it is recognized that more charters being issued does not make the program better and that more membership cards being sent out doesn't mean more kids are getting the benefits of Scouting, then I don't think we will see an end to these sort of problems.

 

Scouting makes a promise to its members, their parents, and its supporters. Too often we have sacrificed quality for quantity.

 

Is was for this reason that when I was lodge chief, I essentially swore off making Quality Lodge a real goal. I had seen drives for Brotherhood membership made just to make quality. I had seen people being kept on the roster just so we wouldn't lose members. I thought there had to be a better way.

 

It turns out there is. Now as a Lodge Adviser, Quality Lodge is one of my goals. However, I am not willing to make Quality Lodge at all costs. Rather, I want Quality Lodge to be used as a guide for setting other goals and measuring performance. However, in the end, Quality Lodge should be like advancement, it should be a natural product of the program. If we put on a good program, Quality Lodge should happen without us ever having a special Brotherhood membership drive to make Quality Lodge.

 

This is kind of like that whole argument about standardized testing and "teaching to the test". If people aren't careful they wind up with a bunch of students who know exactly how to take and pass the standard test but can't do much of anything else.

 

We need tools to measure progress and quality levels. We just need to make sure the tools we have are the right ones for the job and that the tools are being used as intended, not in some other way.

[Backpacker]

Jd it is easy to close your eyes and pretend all is well, but it will not help the organization improve. It is like Proud Eagle said we scouters are the ones who have to instill the principles of scouting into the boys and not rely on professionals to do so. It is the scouters who make this program work, we are the ones who help the boys, and it is we who can rise above the scandals by delivering an effective program to the youth that instills in them leadership and character qualities. Scouting is still one of the best youth programs being offered today in spite of a few corrupt individuals. You don't need Bob White to tell you that, it should be what motivates your own program.