Religious Tolerance (or not)

[scoutingagain]

First I must compliment everyone for maintaining a civil tone on a subject that sometimes creates a degree of tension on the board. I agree with the definition of tolerance Trevorum posted.

 

However, I thought it would be good to re-state the Religious Prinicples of the BSA in this thread. The following is from the BSA National website under the manual for Chaplains and Chaplain's Aids.

 

Declaration of Religious Principle

 

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which a member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

 

I think this statment makes it clear that the BSA does not want it's adult leaders promoting a specific religion within a scouting setting. Read the last sentence. To do so puts an individual in the same catagory as others the BSA does not allow to be members. At least that's the way I interpret it. As adult leaders we should encourage scouts to explore the spiritual side of their lives, withing the context of their family and their own religious institutions. Those that feel a need to promote a specific religion over others are free to do so,... outside of scouting.

 

SA

[Trevorum]

SA, excellent analysis. I had never read the DRP in that light before, but I agree with you.

 

FWIW, I've never heard of a Scouter actually trying to prosletize. The Scouters I know are all considerate of the beliefs of others. I once pointed out to a camporee chaplain that his service was exclusionary to Jews and others. He sincerely apologized and thanked me for pointing out his blind spot.

[scoutldr]

If this is the case, then why does the BSA:

 

Allow a troop chartered to a fundamentalist christian church adopt a troop neckerchief with the cross of Jesus as the central point of their troop logo.

 

Allow the same troop to begin and end every activity with a prayer in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

Allow a District Chairman to begin and end every District meeting with a Christian prayer.

 

Allow LDS churches to charter troops that must adhere to their dietary restrictions, restrictions against female leaders and against camping on Sunday and other rules that seem arbitrary and non-inclusionary to the rest of us.

 

Allow a Venture crew composed of nothing but black muslim youth who pray to Allah 5 times a day.

 

I have read and fully understand the DRP and agree with it. But that ain't what's happening out here in the trenches, folks! My personal belief is that religion should be taught in the church and in the home. In a Scouting environment, we should be tolerant of those diverse beliefs, but not actively promote ANY of them, either by inclusion OR exclusion.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

scoutldr - A charter organization can, if they prefer, be more exclusive in their membership requirements than the BSA. While I have never met a professional scouter that preferred they do it this way, it's just going to be necessary in order to sell scouting within some organizations.

 

As for district events, as long as they would allow a Jewish or Muslim person to take turns leading the prayer, it shouldn't be an issue. Let's say a Jewish person said, "Hey, I'd like to lead the prayer next month". If the district's reply was that he couldn't, then I think you would have a problem.

[scoutingagain]

Very good questions Scoutldr. I certainly don't have the answer for you.

 

Other than some national requirements for membership are apparently more important than others. It appears there is a certain degree of local option granted to some units in the case of religion.

 

SA

 

 

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

Without having to repeat everything you said EagleInKy, you write with a lot of wisdom.

 

Our troop allowed and encouraged scouts to take turns to pray, preach and teach their personal faith. We did this because we feel a growth comes from learning about each others faith, not ignoring them. But while this policy was encouraged, the scouts were usually happy with Troop Chaplin selected at the election.

 

We adults have to work hard to resist putting restrictions on these boys to protect them from our fears, or to encourage them toward our selfish desires.

 

Barry

 

[Rooster7]

BadenP,

 

Rooster, you are constantly degrading people on this forum who disagree with you and that too is intolerance.

 

Okay, that didnt take long. Could you please enlighten me? Like, who was degraded and by what words of mine? Until your provide some facts with your jibes, theyre a little difficult to defend.

 

[BadenP]

Rooster

I sent you a pm to answer your questions.

[acco40]

My personal preference is NOT to have a Muslim one week, a Jew the next, a Christian ... A smorgasbord of religious leaders leading prayers service with sectarian prayer is not in the best interest of Scouting IMO. If sectarian prayer or services are desired - a Catholic service, Jewish service, etc. held simultaneously a la National Jamboree is one solution but you will always get a few complaints about the religion not represented.

 

I think it is much better to have non-sectarian services for all. Why not have a service that doesn't mention Allah, Jesus, angels, saints, fatwahs, icons, etc. and one that DOES relate to the Scout Oath and Law - something all Scout and Scouters, by definition, agree on? If we emphasize that with which we have in common and not our individuals beliefs it is much less devisive.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Rooster7]

BadenP,

 

If you dont want to drag out these things to the public forum in any more detail in order to keep things civil - then dont use a public forum to make slanderous accusations. So, for the record, I too prefer not to exchange barbs over religion. However, if you attempt to portray me as an intolerant, hateful person, dont expect me to remain silent and address you only via private messages. With that said, if you can manage not to direct any insults my way, I can not only refrain from addressing you via PMs, Id be more than happy to ignore you all together. Otherwise, if you insult in public, expect a public response.

 

[wyomingi]

"activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion..." - scout bylaws

 

If Scouting allowed pagans to become Scouts, would you expect me to respect the belief that trees are deities? Rooster7

 

Pagans can become scouts and yes, if a scout has a sincerely held religious belief I think you should respect it. You dont have to agree with it or accept it just respect it.

 

 

[BadenP]

Rooster

 

All I can say is that your posts here and in the past speak for themselves. I was not accusing just giving my own observations which you are free to ignore. The anger in your responses however makes me wonder what other issues might be lurking inside you. However Rooster I wish you no ill will just peace and serenity.

[acco40]

How about if anyone on this forum gets insulted (or feels insulted), instead of hurling barbs back at the perceived insulter - just turn the other cheek.

 

Long ago, ignoring childish insults was considered the mature thing to do. Nowadays, in this red vs. blue environment it is seen as a sign of weakness to ignore barbs thrown ones way. Oh, how far our society has sunk.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Trevorum]

Did he really say that? I guess I'm not surprised!

 

Our troop has several Pagans. They are good scouts.

[Rooster7]

wyomingi,

 

I will never respect a belief that claims a tree to be God or a god. Am I compelled to share that sentiment with every Pagan that happens my way? No. I respect the Scout and his passion to follow a faith (i.e., his convictions), but not necessary what he believes his actual faith or religion. If thats not good enough for the BSA powers-to-be, then I guess its good that Im not active with any troop at the moment.

 

BadenP,

 

If my posts reflect anger, it's purely directed at, and rooted in your consistent ability to avoid true debate. Out of one side of your mouth, you spitefully misrepresent my character, if not my words. Out of the other, you offer me peace and serenity. I find your sincerity to be suspect.

 

Acco40,

 

Id like to suggest that its much easier to preach to others about ignoring childish insults than it is to put that homily into practice yourself. Be that as it may, there is truth in your words. Perhaps, I will work on that.