It's De Ja Vu all over again

[evmori]

whew! I'm relieved. For a moment I thought you might be one of those nuts who opposes the Endangered Species Act and actually thinks it is OK to destroy habitat for monetary gain

 

No I'm one of those nuts who believes the PETA folk have no clue!

 

PETA = "Put Everything Tasty Away"

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"Fishing is not abuse! Neither is hunting!"

 

Why isn't it? What's the ethical difference between fishing or hunting for sport and a cockfight? In both cases, it's just for your entertainment, right? In both cases, physical harm to the animal is an essential part of the activity, right (otherwise you'd hunt with a camera).

[Trevorum]

"... the PETA folk have no clue!"

 

Hooray! We agree!

[torribug]

"What's the ethical difference between fishing or hunting for sport and a cockfight?"

 

I've talked to men who participate in cockfighting. Cockfighting is about making bets on which rooster will kill the other. It's about financial gain for the spectators. Not unlike boxing, but at least the humans have a choice as to whether or not they participate, and they don't (usually) fight to the death. The dead rooster gets tossed into the trash. The meat is too tough.

 

I know several hunters. Part of what they do is for the sport, absolutely. BUT I don't know of any hunter who simply shoots the animal and then walks away. The meat gets eaten - either by the hunter, or the undesirable meats are often turned into pet food. The hide is tanned and used for other things. Often the bones and other things are used to make bone meal, which is used in gardens to help grow that salad that you are munching on. And, of course, the animal's head makes a very garish decoration for the den or the study.

 

As a child, when I got a pellet gun from a neighbor, the rule was this: If it's a living thing and I shoot it, I'd better be willing to clean it, cook it, and eat it. I believe my parents were teaching me stewardship to nature. I'm happy to say, I've only truly eaten crow one time. It was definitely overcooked. I've never shot another animal again, though I hold no ill will to those who do.

 

Fishing is much the same as hunting. I don't know of anyone who would just pull a fish out of the water to let it flop around on the land and die. They eat the fish. There are also people who do "catch and release" fishing. I guess they like the sport of fishing, but not the taste.

 

 

Bug

[packsaddle]

Hey, some of my neighbors are cockfighters. Really! Not that I support that activity, I just know they do it because of their descriptions and their extensive collections of fighting cocks. And I can tell you from long ago when I was a child, those roosters are quite tasty AND tender if you cook them long enough with the dumplings. Just part of growing up in the South, I suppose, although unlike Rooster7 I haven't eaten a dog. Yet.

 

Hunt, fish do feel and I'm not sure I agree with your phylogenetic arrangement. I could be more certain if you would fill in with some of the other organisms and their placement. Nevertheless, the fact is...we kill organisms (plant or animal) and eat them to stay alive. We all do this, no exceptions. I am not sure why some people think that a nervous system automatically bestows greater worthiness for life. So to me the important point is not to waste the lives of the organisms we consume as we continue ours.

Torribug, I too had a BB gun and then a pellet rifle, and today an array of implements of destruction which I seem to use less and less as my butt gets more comfortable at my desk. And the ethic I learned way back also was if you shoot it/catch it, you eat it. Later, I modified that to be more like, "if you need to eat it, then shoot it/catch it and eat it." Not quite the same thing. But I am nevertheless a member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals). By the way, I remember lots of times when catfish were merely tossed on the bank gasping until they died. By me and many others...a long time ago.

 

Rooster7, I have often detected a certain condemnation/contempt from you toward other faiths not in agreement with yours. Have I misinterpreted these outbursts? I think I understand your rant about Islam a while back. Perhaps not. I definitely don't understand why you feel this way about the Unitarian Universalists. It seems almost personal, perhaps even vindictive.

 

Finally, this discussion reminded me of some lines from a movie,

"Third Fish: Hey, look. Howard's being eaten.

Second Fish: Is he?

[They move forward to watch a waiter serving a large grilled fish to a large man.]

Second Fish: Makes you think doesn't it?

Fourth Fish: I mean... what's it all about?

Fifth Fish: Beats me.

 

Why are we here, what is life all about?

Is God really real, or is there some doubt?

Well tonight we're going to sort it all out,

For tonight it's the Meaning of Life."

[Rooster7]

If you ask, he will answer

 

I definitely don't understand why you feel this way about the Unitarian Universalists. It seems almost personal, perhaps even vindictive.

 

No, its not personal. Ive no personal background with Unitarian Universalists.

 

And because its not personal, I am hardly motivated to be vindictive.

 

They anger me though. They are leading many astray down a rosy path that leads nowhere.

 

By their own self-avowed statements of faith, they stand for nothing. They believe in all faithsfaiths that contradict one anotherany faith is good faith. It does not matter how or whom one approaches god, just as long as they approach someone they call god. In fact, persons of faith are not even required to limit themselves to one god or even one faith. For that matter, theyre just as happy with you if you worship a rock verses anything that is living. Actually, you don't have to worship or even believe in god. They believe in the Rodney King approach to religion Why cant we all just get along? Which, on the surface, provides everyone with some warm and fuzzies, but ignores truth and the condition of humanity.

 

So to answer your question, Im not being vindictive. I just cant stomach lying in any shape or form.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

If my enemy is hurt and in a ditch, let me be the one that mends his wounds and pays his bills until he is well.

 

This is a perfect thought that man is incapable of knowing, doing, or uttering on his own.

 

FB

 

 

 

 

[Hunt]

I eat tasty animals too, and don't have many qualms about it. But even there, I think I (and most people) would draw some lines based on possibly irrational considerations.

For instance, I have no problems eating fish, but I would have qualms about eating a whale, and I certainly wouldn't want to eat a dolphin.

On land, I'll eat a pig or cow, probably a horse (although many people wouldn't), but I'd have qualms about eating a dog or cat. I certainly wouldn't eat a chimp. I suppose that scale might reflect how "human-like" I think those critters are.

But I think the question of eating animals is very different from the use (really, abuse) of animals for entertainment.

[Trevorum]

R7: I take it back. I don't think I'd want to watch a football game with you. You are narrow-minded and righteously intolerant and probably not much fun.

[torribug]

Although I will eat meat, I don't eat a lot of it. I cannot be a member of the alternate "PETA" (people eating tasty animals) because I really don't care much for the taste or texture. I think the idea of NOT eating chimps, dogs, cats, whales, or dolphins is a cultural thing, Hunt. There are folks in other lands who won't eat cows or pigs.

I usually go out of my way, when I do buy meat, to buy free-range. I guess it boils down to what I would call stewardship. While I do believe God gave us dominion over the animals, I don't think He intend for us to give them miserable lives from the time they are born until they end up in the slaughterhouse. That's why I don't feel so bad about the sport of hunting/fishing. The animals had a darn good life up until they became somebody's supper or pair of moccasins!

 

Bug

[OldGreyEagle]

Trevorum, I understand that a person can get rankled at Rooster, I know I have many times, but do we need personal attacks, you may not agree with him, you might not want to watch football with him but cant we just leave it at that ?

 

[Trevorum]

OGE - you're right, I was discourteous.

 

R7 struck a nerve; I try to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs and kinda feel they should try to do the same.

[Rooster7]

Trevorum,

 

R7: I take it back. I don't think I'd want to watch a football game with you. You are narrow-minded and righteously intolerant and probably not much fun.

 

So I dislike the Unitarian Universalists teachings. Is that reason to be offended? Are any of my statements substantively wrong? Today, if I wanted to join the UUA, and advised them that I did not believe in the existence of God, they would still welcome me with open arms. Yes, this is very open-minded. And indeed it is

[acco40]

Rooster, your synopsis of the UU sounds like the position of the AMA. From a biological POV, what you believe in doesn't matter; just the fact that one does believe in something. Various medical experiments have given evidence to that fact (i.e. the "power" of prayer, etc.).

[OldGreyEagle]

Just trying to keep it fair and balanced, you didnt insult Trevorum, did you ? I read your post a few times and I dont think so, but in fairness I felt like I had to ask.