BSA's Response to Southern Asia Disaster

[Laurie]

It never crossed my mind that this post, which was really just an FYI post, would become an "issues and politics" post. Good move Hops.

 

John D, for what it's worth, I think it's great that your Scouts are already helping out. Service isn't something that can be too small a thing, and a little here and a little there adds up. In my opinion, that's when it's neat to be part of something--when we know there are many others taking part too, and the end result comes from several groups doing their part. I like that about Scouts, and Scouting for Food comes to mind. Small collections, big collections--but all go to help those in need.

 

As for giving when we may/know we'll be criticized. That's a tough one, I think, but my own personal opinion on this--and the way I have taught our children to approach it--is to find ways to give when we see a need without worrying about whether it's appreciated or not, and without even having others know what we do. My hope is to try to help others--also close to home nldscout--when a need is spotted or somehow brought to our attention. Needs are so great and varied that not all will give to all, but I just wanted to post this for those who do want to (1) know what the BSA is doing and (2) may be looking for a way to help themselves.

 

I may be off in how I should approach helping others as a Scouter, as I can not help at all times as in help every time a need arises. That's what makes serving hard: deciding when and where to do so. nldscout brings this up with the example he provided, and I wonder if part of what we should do in helping is to evaluate the need and the ability to help. For instance, that old example of giving money to someone asking for it for food, and they head off to use the money for drugs or alcohol; there are other ways to meet the real need. My kids through zingers at me with this stuff a lot, but the bottom line is knowing how we can help and where our resources are best used, isn't it?

 

Happy new year, my fellow Scouters!!(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[NJCubScouter]

Nldscouter says, among other things:

 

But what we are talking about is our taxpayer money being sent to governments that at every chance criticizes the US.

 

One could debate whether this matters, if it were true... but I don't even think it is true in this case, is it? The countries we are talking about are India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Indonesia, and secondarily Malaysia, Maldives, Myanmar (Burma) and Bangladesh. I am not positive about the foreign policies of each of these nations, but I don't think ANY of them are countries the U.S. has much of a problem with -- or that they have much of a problem with us. Some are democracies, some are not, some are struggling to be democracies. Thailand has "always" been on friendly terms with the U.S. as far as I know; India and the U.S. have had a variable relationship but I think we are friends at the moment; Sri Lanka I can't tell you much about except that I think they have been in a perpetual civil war for years; and Indonesia is a country I think we really WANT to help as much as we can. They are a high-population, geographically large mostly-Muslim nation that is, at least this month, a democracy.

 

Of the other countries I know little, except that I think Myanmar is a dictatorship that has some "human rights issues," but they don't give us (or anybody else) much trouble because they can barely sustain themselves. Bangladesh is pretty much synonymous with the word "disaster" and like some of the other countries, they are usually too concerned with not starving to death to get too involved in anybody else's business. All I can really tell you about Malaysia is that they have the tallest buildings in the world and a pretty harsh justice system... or is that Singapore? Maldives? Anyone... anyone?

 

But regardless of what governments may say, the people who are suffering are PEOPLE, not simply units of a foreign entity. These are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people who need our help so that hopefully the death toll will not continue to rise due to disease and starvation and so that hopefully these countries can get back to some semblance of normality. Both our government and private groups (i.e. the Boy Scouts) and individuals help these people because we can, and should. Politics ought to take a back seat, and unlike some situations in the past where our help has been diverted (like Ethiopia), I think that can happen here.

 

As an aside having nothing to do with either our government or the Boy Scouts, I heard today that one of the people who is helping to organize relief efforts and who has traveled to the affected areas, is Roberto Clemente Jr., partly as a tribute to his late father. Those of you who follow baseball will know what that means, and how inspiring it is.

 

 

[ozemu]

It's terrible.

 

They need help.

 

I served my ten for the Queen. Australia fought the Indo's in the 60's (not widely known). I served in Malaysia at the tail end of our military assistance to them suffering Indo incursion. We support the PNGDF and PNG classmates of mine from officer training have exchanged a shot or two over the border. I narrowly missed (but my mates and my unit did not) the peacekeeping (virtually peacemaking) in East Timor. We will be there for years. Indonesia sends most of the illegal immigrants we get. Our embassy in Indonesia was bombed this year and they killed about 200 Aus and heaps more locals with a nightclub bomb in Bali the year after 9/11.

 

Australia has roughly the poulation of NY.

 

We are sending 90 something Million dollars (Aus) as well as troops etc. Almost one mil was raised at last nights celebrations Aus wide. My family is giving. A school girl nearby raised $4000 by selling hotdogs. If I were a doctor I would be there now - the call went out yesterday.

 

They need our help.

 

It's not a game of footie - the score is not important

[ozemu]

Try also scout.org to see what WOSM is doing and some letters from Scout Assoc in effected countries.

[KoreaScouter]

Ozemu's spot on. If anybody has a reason to let Indonesia twist, it's Australia. But they're in there, in a huge way, and making a big difference -- and, Sumatra was no holiday destination BEFORE this happened. I'm working non-stop 16-hour days right now, planning our part of the relief effort. It ain't easy, stretched as thin as we are. But, it's just the right thing to do. I may get to go downrange myself, and if I do, I hope it's Aceh -- they're in the worst shape.

 

KS

[Lone]

NLD, I agree with your basic sentiments. I am heartened to see the PRIVATE giving of so many volunteer organizations, including scouts like John's. I'm not so happy to see tax dollars clamored for more and more loudly without very much appreciation on the recipients' parts (the governments, not the individuals -- whom I assume are quite appreciative). Why isn't the aid (that beyond immediate food and water) being made CONDITIONAL? If tax dollars are being used, let Indonesia more fully cooperate with rooting out their Muslim extremists, let SriLanka agree to pursue their drug lords, how about increased access to ports for our military?

 

The point is that while this is truly a tragedy, why should we (the USA taxpayers) be EXPECTED to constantly foot the bill? What of the next tragedy, and the next? Where does it end? I'm all for private voluntary giving (see http://www.family.org/fmedia/misc/a0035010.cfm if you want to give where you know it will actually get to those needing it). I also think it could be our advantage to spend foreign aid money there -- so long as we are getting something in return. Otherwise, it is foolishness at BEST.

[Lone]

"I am not positive about the foreign policies of each of these nations, but I don't think ANY of them are countries the U.S. has much of a problem with -- or that they have much of a problem with us." Do a simple search. This is incorrect.

 

btw, comparing taxpayer dollars to "help other people at all times" is in no way keeping with the Scout tradition. If the little old lady down the street is in desparate need of food, you do not have the right, ethical or otherwise, to COMPEL her neighbors to donate toward a food basket. It's a wonderful thing for those who want to "help other people at all times" to do so VOLUNTARILY, but you can't rob the other neighbor to do so.

 

Sure hope those posters aren't teaching any of the citizenship badges :-(

[scoutingagain]

Just some thoughts. The situation in SE Asia right now is unprecedented in our life time. About the only other time the world has seen such suffering on such a massive scale in the last 50-60 years was probably WWII, and the US stepped up to the plate and provided massive relief to countries that had previously been our enemies.

 

Personally, I will give this administration the benefit of the doubt. I think the initial criticism was directed at a quoted figure of aid of $15 million. I also believe this figure was determined before the full enormity of what had happened was fully understood. This figure happened to hit the news just as casualty figures seemed to be rising exponentially and from a Public Relations standpoint the timing was horrible and provided some fodder for those looking to critisize the US and the current administration on anything they could get a hold of. Not that I believe that aid should be given based on PR.

 

Since then the administration has fully commited to doing what it can do to help those in need and is doing so. Just as importantly the American public has been donating privately to relief efforts in record numbers. I havn't heard much critism about the level of relief effort in the last few days.

 

As far as tax dollars go, well the government spends billions of dollars on programs I don't necessarily believe the government should be spending money on either. I vote for those legislators and leaders that I hope will make the best decisions on how to tax me and spend my tax money. I recognize that once elected, those leaders have the lawful authority to make those decisions. Those that complain about the commitment the US government has made should complain to President Bush. He is the one that has made these decisions. If they don't like it, try and find a candidate that will commit to not providing international aid in a time of crisis or one that will demand concessions for humanitarian aid and vote for them.

 

I felt no sympathy for anti-war protestors that refused to pay taxes because some of their tax money went to the military and I don't have sympathy for those that feel current tax dollars are being spent inappropriately in the current relief effort. We don't get to individually decide which programs our tax dollars go to and which ones they don't. We do get to elect those that make those decisions.

 

The US has taken on the role of being the world's lone super power, militarily and economically. Our military has unique capabilties to move material and provide aid on a scale and time frame no one else can. I certainly don't agree with every decision President Bush has made, darn few in fact. However in this instance I agree with his decision to provide the kind of aid he has committed to, both militarily and financially. If he decides to commit more, I'll understand as well,... over and above any private donations I make.

 

SA

 

 

 

[NWScouter]

Lone, if you think taxes are robbing people then I hope you are not doing any of the citizenship m.b.

[cajuncody]

At the risk of coming out on the wrong side of a discussion yet again. I have to ask:

What about all the people in Florida that still don't have running water, electricity, or homes? I am not against helping when needed but shouldn't we do something about the problems at home too?

Kristi

[dsteele]

I'm going to ignore the political stuff in this thread. I see merit in both arguements, but I only speak for myself.

 

I want to help in some way. The media is stressing cash donations, but our cash is tight right now and even a small donation would cause us difficulty.

 

BUT -- I heard on ABC News on the radio last evening that any UPS store will accept used cameras, computer components, or other electronic devices. They'll give them to a group which will auction them off on Ebay and donate the proceeds to the disaster effort.

 

The other gift I can give them, and have been, is prayer. Everyone can afford prayers.

 

Unc.

[Lone]

>>The situation in SE Asia right now is unprecedented in our life time. About the only other time the world has seen such suffering on such a massive scale in the last 50-60 years was probably WWII, and the US stepped up to the plate and provided massive relief to countries that had previously been our enemies.

[scoutingagain]

Lone guy.

 

Ok, your list of disasters is impressive, and the point taken. Maybe this isn't the biggest disaster in the last 50 years, just one that's gotten more press. Still doesn't mean the US government shouldn't respond. As I said before, you and I don't have a line item veto on our taxes, whether it's for defense, humanitarian aid, military procurement of toilet seats, promotion of private industries, delivering the mail, AMTRAK, loans to airlines, social security, medicare, star wars missile defense systems, NASA, weapons systems the Pentagon doesn't want, absurd research projects or anything else. Believe me, overall, I'm probably much more dissatisfied the way this current administration is spending our taxes than you are. Aid to this disaster is one thing I can agree with and I think critisism of the President on the issue was unfair to say the least. If you don't like what the President is doing with your tax dollars, vote for someone else or another party next time. He was elected to, among other things, decide how our tax dollars should be spent and as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, decide where and how they should be used. As a taxpayer you have every right to complain how your taxes are spent, or how much your taxed. You don't have the right to decide how they are spent. You only get to decide on who to vote for and hope the winner makes the right decisions. I suppose you could start a ballot petition to have a specific question added to an election specifying the government may not fund a specific activity, such as provide aid to Asia. I don't know if that would be legal or not. I'm not sure you'd get very far with such an initiative, but you have every right to give it a go. I hope that's what you'd teach in a citizenship MB.

 

 

On the other hand I saw this article in Business Week. http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/050103/nf200412305024_db042_1.html It may cheer you up a bit. It indicates the majority of relief costs will likely be paid by private donations, not governments. It also provides some information on what to look for in making donations, and cautions on making donations that may not be as helpful as you might think.

 

SA

[Lone]

Thanks, SA. Good article. And it underscores that private charity is distinct from foreign aid. The fewer taxes we pay, the more there is left for charitable donations.

 

btw, I never said that as a country we should not respond at all, but that we should not be a faucet without a spigot. And that for funds beyond basic necessities, there should be some responsibility as well.

 

Heard today that the largest relief efforts are coming from --- Indonesia. Yep, the world isn't going to fall apart without our foreign aid. Has anyone heard from their Scout organization?

[cubbingcarol]

What about other items to donate, specifically clothing. Does anyone know about any organizations that would take used clothing? I too am unable to donate money at the time, but with 4 kids I always have good used clothing. Plus, this would be a great 'good turn' for our pack, even if it would not be for America.

 

Carol