Concern over Council issues.

[IslandEagle]

Well... What can I say. I am 18 years old and attending college at the University of Texas at Dallas so am now far removed from my old council, but my mother being the very active scouter that she is still keeps me up to date with information.

 

What she is telling me right now is very concerning...to the point that I need to come to this forum to see if their is anything that can be done. This story is pretty long, and I have limited time to tell it so please bear with me.

 

It all started when we got a new council executive. This CE not only refuses to work with council volunteers, but also does a few other questionable thing.

 

A scoutmaster from a troop in my town kicked a boy out of the troop for questioning his authority. I am pretty sure that a scoutmaster cannot just kick a kid out of a troop, and litigation was brought against this scoutmaster, counter suits were filed for slander and everything became a huge mess. Well the council executive backed the scoutmaster's decision to kick the kid out, which brought fire upon him...

 

Some questionable things he has done.

 

1. Allowed scout troops to be formed when there is no thought of advancement.

Basically he allowed a local boating organization to become a troop to raise our scout enrollment, and allow them scout insurance.

 

2. He has allowed scouts to be involved in fundraisers that involve the scouts serving alcoholic beverages to people.

 

3. He has threatened many volunteers that have been in the council far longer than him, because they refuse to change the way things have been done just to suit what he wants.

 

Now I KNOW something can be done about this...when did it become ok to sacrifice scouting morals for the all mighty dollar? Can someone please advise on some course of action to deal with these two men that are certainly not suitable to be serving in the positions they are in. Thanks in advance.

 

IslandEagle

[fotoscout]

You deserve an answer, but I dont think youll find one here. Youve raised some serious issues that you are only knowledgeable of on a third hand basis at best.

 

If what youre reporting is even half true, it should be taken up with your council Key Three for an investigation. However, as had been said here, the Key Three hired this guy so there may be some resistance in effectively dealing with him. On the other hand he may be following an agenda that has been laid out for him by the Key Three to help redirectsideline.some non productive Scouters.

 

Good Luck.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not sure about numbers 1 and 3, meaning I can't help you there, but if you have eyewitnesses to scouts (who would be by definition minors) serving alcohol, then you have illegal activity which needs to be reported to the authorities. The proper authorities would depend on where the incident took place. This is a serious matter, are you sure they scouts were serving the drinks and its not just a side comment? if true the liquor laws will take care of things. If its hearsay, then you are nowhere

[Eamonn]

I have never been a Scout Executive. I have gone head to head with a few Scouting professionals in my day.

You don't say what led to the Scoutmaster asking the Lad to leave the troop. Was he working under the orders of the CO? If so the Scout Exec. Had no choice but to stand with the SM

Are you sure that the boating types are not a Crew? Even still the Scout Exec. Is no way responsible for the program that is offered.

I agree with what OGE, has posted about the serving of alcohol.

The Scout Exec. May have been hired to do a certain job or take care of an area that is in need of help. Sad to say a lot of Councils are hurting big time when it comes to finances, while others are hurting in the membership department. If things aren't done it could be that the Council will receive a provisional charter, which is a way of sending the message"Buck up or else!!" The else is that there will no longer be a Council. If this Scout Exec is working away trying to get things done to improve or even save the Council, and there are people preventing this from happening. What choice has he but to remove these people?

That mighty dollar is needed to secure the program in the Council and ensure that the Council doesn't end up just having a history.

You can do a lot by asking everyone you know to up their FOS donation and do what they can to help and support the Scout Executive in his efforts.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[johndaigler]

IslandEagle, WELCOME!!!! Though, of course, we all wish your first post could have been more about Scouting and/or college -- if you've got time in your study schedule, look to see if there's a local troop or pack around that needs an eaglet fresh from the nest!! Good Luck!!

 

Now, about your post. . . We all sense, and understand, your anger and frustration. But, if you want better ideas from this crowd, they'll need better details. Have you considered having your Mom sign on and share her version of the situation. If she's directly involved and there at the scene, she'll be able to set the stage for some legitimate problem solving.

 

I hope it works out for the sake of the boys who are still there in the troop.

 

jd

[IslandEagle]

No, this man was put in position to replace our Council Executive who passed away recently.

 

Thank you all for your replies, there has already been litigation brought against this man...I just hate to see this happening to a council that was once very harmonious, and has now become a huge mess.

 

To respond to John... I've already tried contacting troops/crews in the area trying to get information from them/seeing if they would be interested in having me help out but have gotten 0 Replies from anyone, kind of saddens me.

 

Fortunately, I'm still somewhat active in my home troop. It's 6 hours away but sometimes find time to go to events.

 

The information I provided is certainly not hearsay. My mother is certainly not someone to lie. All the alegations were brought by women and I think that is why it's not taken more seriously, which also saddens me. It only blatently reminds me what a sexist organization boy scouts of America still is.

[Proud Eagle]

I feel your pain.

 

We finally managed to get rid of our Scout Executive. Unfortunately, the council to our south hired him, even though he mismanaged things so badly in our council that several lawyers involved in the council on a volunteer basis have suggested convictions on multiple criminal charges would be possible.

 

We also once had an Assistant Scout Executive who engaged in drunk driving during Scouting functions and on council properties, and did this in situations that youth witnessed it. One of those youth attempted to do something about it, but the Scout Executive told him he would revoke his membership in BSA if he tried to take it further. That former assistant exec got promoted and has his own council now. That former youth is now an employee of the BSA.

 

So, these sort of strange things happen.

 

We live through them.

 

Unit level Scouters keep on doing the job they always did. Maybe they don't volunteer to help the district or council any more, or maybe they don't go looking for help like they once did.

 

In the end though, most of the youth never know anything strange is happening. Kids keep joining, people go camping, they earn badges, ranks, and all sorts of things. They have fun and learn stuff.

 

Donors that don't know or care bout the new SE keep giving.

 

Those that do know probably either designate their donations for specific projects just to be safe, or decide to give to some other worthy cause.

 

In the end though, the council is volunteer run. The volunteers hired the SE. The volunteers can fire him too. Now that won't stop some other council from hiring him, but at least he wouldn't be your problem any more.

 

Now, who exactly can hire and fire the exec? That would be the council executive board (or whatever name they give that in your neck of the woods). This is probably a group of a dozen or two dozen people. Some will be long time Scouters. Others will be business men, experts in some field, or some other prominent member of the community. Some may be clergy of churches, some may be doctors or lawyers. Some may be politicians. They are all volunteers. They probably have a meeting once per month or so to discuss things and conduct business. Usually these meeting are open to the public, but normally only board members show up.

 

Now, what if the executive board won't do the right thing? Now that is a problem. Usually only the council president can do anything about removing an executive board member. However, once per year there is a council business meeting. At this meeting all the Charter Organization Reps, all the executive board members, all the council members at large, and a variety of other people will get together. The main point of business is to elect new members for the executive board.

 

So, as I was saying, volunteers have the ability to make changes if they want to.

 

However, the Scout Executive does wield enormous power and authority. He is after all the CEO of the local council. In many ways he is the most powerful person in the council. Yet, even he is not all powerful. (I guess if a SE really wanted to, he could revoke the membership of the board members he didn't like, but that would probably draw unwanted attention.) In the end, volunteers can stop him if they really want to.

 

The problem is, most volunteers don't want to interfere with the way the Scout Executive does his job. They assume he is a professional with years of experience and should know best what to do. In many cases that is true, but sometimes the council board and council committee use it as an excuse not to do there job properly.

 

 

OK.

 

That was all very interesting but it didn't answer your question.

 

 

Find witnesses to the alcohol thing.

 

Get them to write down what happened, sign the statement, and give the statement to the police or local prosecutor in the area the event happened.

 

Or, just have the witnesses contact the police or prosecutor and let them handle it from there.

 

Also, someone should probably pass the word about it up the Scouting chain of command. If someone is willing to produce a signed statement, it should probably be sent to the Area Directer, Region Directer, and to someone at the national office.

 

After that, the problem should sort itself out.

 

Unfortunately this will be a PR disaster for Scouting and the council, but sometimes it hurts to do the right thing. Besides, BSA has people to clear thing up with the press.

 

Now, about that SM. In all honesty, an SM really could get rid of a Scout. It isn't part of the normal duties of an SM, but if he wants a Scout gone, he could talk the committee, or the charter organization, into getting rid of him. He could also just ask the Scout to go.

 

About those volunteers. He really shouldn't threaten people. It violates the Scout Oath and Law. Now if he is promising to enforce BSA policy, and some people take that as a threat, that is something else. Chances are, he thinks some of those old volunteers aren't doing things correctly and he is trying to correct them in a rather non-diplomatic manner. The SE may be right. He could also just be flexing his muscle to make it clear he is in charge. It is hard to say.

 

I would certainly take his disregard for long serving volunteers as a bad sign. It is either a bad sign about what those volunteers have been doing, or an even worse sign about your new SE.

 

 

Ultimately though, we can't give you the best advice on so very little information. Also, keep in mind we are volunteers, and none of us have any special power to fix your situation. We don't run a Scout Executive removal firm. Most of us don't have any direct experience in dealing with a situation like yours. It is certainly something they don't write about in the books.

 

One final thought. You could always contact the national office and ask them about all this. They really aren't there to deal with complaints about every Scout Executive. They certainly won't really care if there are disagreements with a few volunteers. However, they could get very interested in that fundraiser with the alcohol and the Scouts. Or they may just think it is some crazy story from someone with a grudge against an SE.

 

Before you do anything, make sure that alcohol story is true, and not just a rumor. That is the most important allegation in this story. If he knew, for a fact, that Scouts would be serving drinks at a fundraiser and approved it, he could be in deep both with Scouting and the law. However, if he didn't approve of it or know about it, he really isn't responsible. Check out that story and let us know.

[Bob White]

WOW, where to begin.

 

I am sure your mother is a wonderful person but whast you are hearing is still third person at best and falls in the rumor category.

 

In order of your concerns.

1) Since this is a boating organizatio it is likely a Sea Scout Crew but even if it is not, making sure there is an advancement program is the responsibility of the unit not the council executive.

 

It is unlikely he was personally involved in it, more likey a District executive was.

 

2) Unfortunate if true.

 

3) Is that a problem? That depends on what they refused to do.

 

4) I would be interested in how you determined that Scouting is a sexist organization? I would agree some scouters are sexist, but that's their problem, that hardly makes Scouting sexist.

 

Foto,

The Key three does not hire the council executives.

 

BW

 

 

[evmori]

Like OGE, I can't help you with #'s 1 & 3. Number 2 should never be allowed. If nothing else, it send the wrong message and is probably illegal! Where is #4?

 

Bob,

Rumor? Man, you are really something! Why do you constantly have to question the posters motives instead of just trying to help?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[BadenP]

Wow is right,

 

First it is the regional office who puts in and takes out Scout Execs, not the Council Board. Second, all regional offices appoint investigators to look into wrong doings by any scout professional at the request of the council exec. board. It is the regional office though that makes the final decision. One SE I worked for had extorted council funds,($10,000) for personal use and was removed and transferred to another council. No matter the outcome it will be a PR nightmare and the council will lose trust and credibility with the volunteers and the community for quite a while.

[OldGreyEagle]

BadenP, not to get medieval on you or anything, but I was under the impression the Council had at least some input to the selection of a Council Executive, are you saying that is wrong?

That the local Council has no input to the Council Executive?

[Proud Eagle]

The BSA, through the region offices, keeps track of which professionals are eligible for which promotions.

 

So, if there is an opening in a council for a new Scout Executive, the Executive Board (or perhaps the council president) will request a list of candidates who are eligible to take a Scout Executive position. The region office will produce such a list and send it to the council. The council will then choose which one of those people to hire.

 

So, it is a blend of the professional service telling you who you can hire, and the council making the final decision to actually hire one of those people.

 

My council is currently preparing to hire a new SE, and this is how it is working here.

[BadenP]

OGE,

 

Proud Eagle is correct, Regional gives the Exec. Board a very short list of eligible candidates who they think would be a good fit into that council, and the council exec. board can choose who they think will be the best fit from those candidates.

 

However, the council board can not fire an SE, they must ask regional to remove him if they have proper cause. Sorry for the confusion.

[NJCubScouter]

This issue of who selects the SE has come up before in this forum and the consensus has always been as ProudEagle describes it: The council executive board selects the SE from among eligible candidates identified by the regional office. BadenP is the first person I have seen say the decision is made by regional. I have no doubt, however, that an SE can be REMOVED by national/regional for wrongdoing. Whether anything described in this thread constitutes such wrongdoing, I express no opinion on, except that if he knowingly allowed or directed Scouts (who by definition are under-age) to be assigned to serve alcoholic beverages (while in uniform??? the post does not say), that would seem to be pretty good cause for termination or at least some lesser but significant "consequence." That aspect of the story seems so bizarre I have to wonder whether there has been a miscommunication somewhere in how it is being reported. (Not to say anyone's not telling the truth.)

[NJCubScouter]

Oops, now I see BadenP's later post. Beat me by 2 minutes. If I could edit my post, I would, but I can't.