Politics, Elections and Scouts - Useful for Advancement?

[GabeTheRockStar]

I am an Eagle of the '90 handbook era. I am interested to hear members' thoughts on scouts as political volunteers. I know of projects, even successful Eagle projects, that involved helping this or that party. I am interested to know how far y'all think that might extend. I am now a voluteer in a grassroots effort in Kentucky, organizing other volunteers to help various conservative candidates' campaigns during election season.

 

God knows that political involvement of almost any kind is helpful in developing a sense of citizenship and civil responsibility in young scouters. But as an organizer, I want to offer them something in return for their time. For this reason I am hoping to put together Merit Badge workshops for my volunteers, and help them get the whole package in a very educational, hands-on way. But more importantly, I want to find out how campaign volunteer work can count for service project credit, be it for Second Class or Eagle.

 

So the topic for discussion is this: what kinds of political activity would you sign off? Of course, for my own practical purposes, I will be talking with regional advancement chairmen, because I don't expect it will be resolved quickly here. But I want to know your opinion.

 

What I understand about the issue is as follows. Partisan activity is more controversial, due to the fact that it arguably does not benefit the whole community. But most such activity can be approved anyway. It is good citizenship, encourages the same in members of the community and is ultimately voluntary work for (a) non-profit organization(s). Some troops and councils seem to encourage it, while others refuse to sign off anything of the kind. I fall in with the former school of thought, and disagree with the latter. If your argument is good, however, I suppose my opinion may prove malleable.

 

Thoughts?

[Bob White]

The rules of scoouting state that it is inappropriate as members of the BSA to support a specific candidate or party. In fact the uniform policies of the BSA forbid the use of the name or images of the BSA program to be used in those ways.

 

The program is allowed to support particpating citizenship and can promote the participation in the election process and political activism. You simply cannot support a specifc side while also representing the BSA.

 

Outside of wearing the uniform, and as a citizen and NOT as a scout, a person can be as involved as they choose, and hopefully their participation in scouting has given them the inspiration to do so.

[EagleInKY]

Gabe - I know I already posted this on another thread, but I thought I'd restate it here to "close the loop".

 

I believe that supporting Get Out The Vote campaigns, from a non-partisan standpoint, would be fully supported by most as a valid project for 2nd class, Star or Life. I'm not sure how it would fit as an Eagle project, but would entertain ideas.

 

Legal rules around non-profits prohibit 501©3 organizations from endorsing a candidate or a party (but they can support a "position"). Since most of us fall into that category (since we're sponsored by churches or other non-profit groups), we must adhere to those rules.

[scoutingagain]

What kinds of political activity would I sign off on?

 

Simple...Nonpartisan activity.

 

I agree with Bob White. Any individual is free to support any cause or candidate of their choice, and scouts should be encouraged to do so, but they are not free to do so while representing, or appearing to represent, the BSA. Why? Because one person's political ideas are not likely to represent those of all scouts or scouters and an individual's participation as a scout or scouter at a partisan activity would imply support by more than just the individual, which would not be true. Such activity is unscoutlike in my mind and not in keeping with the Scout Oath and Law.

 

There are activities within the political arena that scouts can do though. I could see scouts participating in a "Get out the Vote" campaign, as long as it was not get out the vote for a specific candidate. They could volunteer to assist at debates sponsored by non-partisan organizations and other non-partisan activities.

 

SA

[NJCubScouter]

On the issue of counting political campaigning for service time:

 

I suspect different Scoutmasters would have different opinions on whether political campaigning "counts" as "community service." Therefore, some might approve such activity for Second Class, Star and Life "service hours" and some might not. The rules against partisan activity in Scouting would not necessarily be an impediment because the requirements do NOT say that the service hours have to be as part of an activity in which one identifies oneself as a Scout. Personally, if I were a Scoutmaster I probably would not approve service hours for activities in which one CANNOT identify ones-self as a Scout, so I would ask the Scout to do other service for service-time purposes, while encouraging his citizenship activities as a campaign volunteer. But I don't think my opinion is necessarily the only "right" one in this case -- the requirements give the SM latitude in this area.

 

Even if one were to define "community service" to include political campaigning, and find it appropriate for "service hours," it does not seem to me that political campaigning could qualify as an Eagle service project, in which a Scout is required to "plan, develop and give leadership to others in a service project..." I have been a volunteer in many election campaigns. In my younger days these were partisan political campaigns, usually for president or governor. As an adult, I have campaigned (and campaign-managed) non-partisan campaign for the local school board, eventually running myself, and being elected. This is all to say that I know a little about political campaigns, and the roles that various types of people can plan.

 

There is no reason, necessarily, why a teenager could not "give leadership" to others as a campaign volunteer. I was a campus coordinator for a presidential campaign when I was only a few years older than most boys going for their Eagle. Most likely the Scout would be coordinating other youth, such as "Young Democrats" or "Young Republicans." But, "plan" and "develop" a "project" as a teenage campaign volunteer? That seems very unlikely to me. Most of the planning and developing is done by the paid campaign folks. Gabe, as a volunteer organizing other volunteers, you may in fact be planning and developing the organization's efforts, or you may be carrying out plans developed by someone else. But I don't see that kind of role existing for someone who is under 18. I remember when I was in college sitting in rooms with adult political activists, and having little or no credibility with them simply because of my age. I think that not even being old enough to vote would have excluded me from the room altogether. And I didn't even come close to "developing" and "planning" any aspect of the campaigns.

 

But if your experience is different, it would be interesting to hear how.

[eagleSM]

 

 

i would have to agree that Mr Bob White has it exactly right...

[GabeTheRockStar]

I am glad to hear that some agree with me on the issue of BSA descriptions of "service projects."

 

Bob White brings up an interesting issue. Believe me, I have worked for enough 501© clause organizations; I understand how that works, and what the limitations can be. I did not know whether BSA was a 501©(3). I would also like to know what "rules of scouting" and "uniform policies" Bob White is referring to. I simply have not been able to find any information saying that scouts can't touch politics. You are absolutely right. BSA, especially if they are a 501©(3), cannot endorse one side. But I see no reason why scouts can't be given credit for working in campaigns. If both parties can recruit scout troops to work on their campaigns, and BSA makes no statement about which they should work for, then BSA endorses no candidate and neither side of any race.

 

Does this make sense?

 

NJCubScouter, not to argue, but I disagree. Campaigns are often run by haughty people who don't think they need help from a 17 year old, sure. But these people are not the norm, certainly. I have only run into a few people like this before. Especially in medium size, close races, candidates and campaign managers are very open to suggestions from people like college and high school students. A scout who wanted to organize a group of volunteers to walk neighborhoods or make phone calls would be more than welcome. I've seen it happen before, and I know candidates running now who would be delighted. Eagle scouts are often bright and competent, and that is not lost on most people. We all know that.

 

SO FAR:

 

- The concensus seems to be that scouts should volunteer as good young citizens, though maybe the BSA organization should not sponsor it.

 

- Whether they should do it as scouts, and whether it should be creditable for advancement is the real bone of contention.

 

My question, then, is are troops 501©(3)? Are they limbs of the organization? Why can't scouts get signed off for working for either side?

 

I still agree with EagleInKY about it. But I see no reason why Eagle scouts should be any exception.

 

Further discussion, gents?

[Bob White]

All Councils of the BSA are 501c3 organizations, ALL unit charters are held by that non-profit corporation. The Uniform rules are found in the BSA Insignia Guide. The rules I reffered to are also spelled out in Leader Specific training.

 

No one said the scouts cannot support citienship, just not party politics.

 

BW

[Bob White]

All Councils of the BSA are 501c3 organizations, ALL unit charters are held by that non-profit corporation. The uniform rules are found in the BSA Insignia Guide. The rules I referred to are also spelled out in Leader Specific Training.

 

No one said the scouts in uniform cannot support citizenship, just not partisan politics. We are a citizenship organization not a political organization, it just that some people try to make it political.

 

BW

[Hunt]

The public schools here require a certain number of hours of community service for high school graduation, and partisan political volunteering counts. I fully agree that partisan activity shouldn't be a Scouting project (and thus not an Eagle project). I'm a little less sure about the hours of "service projects" for the other ranks, since there is no requirement that they be done "as" a Scout. I can't see how recognizing that volunteer work would harm the Scouting movement, as long as there is no direct endoresement.

[GabeTheRockStar]

Please forgive me if I am being too persistent with this. Here I go.

 

Bob White: thank you so much for your help, directing me to those resources. Its not always easy for a non-"troop leader" to understand how the whole thing is structured. So the charters are held by the councils. Does that mean the troops are part of the council?

 

(The reason I am asking all of this is really because of the one Eagle I know whose project for the Republican Party was approved at the Troop, Council and National levels. I am trying to reconcile what you are saying to this, and what makes sense to me.)

 

So troop 123, being a part of ABC Council, is effectively a 501©(3). As such, T123 cannot endorse, give money or lend paid staff to either party. John and Jack are in T123, and thus are registered members, but not staff, of ABC Council.

 

Lets say John wants to help the Republicans, and Jack wants to help the Democrats. Approving their voluntary work for both or either sides, as a service to the community, does not seem to constitute any kind of endorsement of either party by T123, ABC Council or BSA.

 

BSA offers awards to scouts who show religious merit in their particular faith; God and Country, etc. You would not say that this constitutes BSA's endorsement of one, any, or all of these religions. Its just an endorsement of religion itself--reverence.

 

Why does that not apply here? As long as a scout can get credit for working for either party, I don't see partisan activity here, on the part of T123, ABC Council, or BSA. Its just an endorsement of citizenship. Non-profits can encourage their members to go vote. They are effectively saying, "go vote for the Rep or the Dem." This is legal because it is neutral. If scouts are encouraged to "help either the Rep or the Dem," it seems to be the equivalent for members too young to vote.

 

This is my understanding of why my friend's project was probably approved. (BTW, this is not "my friend" as in "me." My project involved helping elderly homes.) That it makes sense to me, and that it was approved in his case on all levels makes me think I have the correct veiwpoint.

 

Not to be pushy, but can Bob White or someone correct my reasoning here?

 

Hunt: good point. When you put it that way, I can see why I might put Eagle projects and regular service hours in separate categories. Thanks.

[John-in-KC]

SERVER TRUNCATED ANOTHER ###### post(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Bob White]

As far as the project there is not enough information, what was it? Did he were the uniform?

 

Remember it is the unit committee's responsibility to review the project before it is begun. National does not see it until AFTER the project is finished. If an adult made a bad decision the national board of review will not hold the award back from the scout or even tell the scout of the error, they will take the problem to the person(s) who made the error.

 

The BSA National executive board since 1910 has determined and upheld that the BSA will be non-partisan. It supports participating citizenship but not a specific party, plank or candidate...EVER.

 

NO, the troop is not automatically a 501c3, all councils are and most charter organizattions are. The unit belongs to the CO the CO franchises the scouting program through an annual contract with the local council, who in-turn is a francisee of the National council.

 

I recommend you attend New Leader essential Training to learn the structure of the program.

 

Hope this helps,

BW

 

 

[GabeTheRockStar]

Yes, it does help. Thank you so much.

 

I still don't see how scouts' work for this or that party compromises BSA or any 501© clause organization. Of course I understand that BSA's official PR is not going to endorse working for a political party.

 

Anyway, maybe we will have to agree to, well, have a different understanding of things.

 

My friend's Eagle project was often carried out in uniform, and it was mostly a drive to get Republicans to the polls in eleven area precincts. The council's decision was never questioned by national as far as I know. This is held up by that fact that this particular fellow was very unpopular (and unjustly so) with our pernicious rumormill of a committee. Some of them tried to block him from passing his board. They would have welcomed a chance to revoke it at the time. If word had come down from on high, there would have been a serious effort to follow through with some sort of revocation. At least it would have been big news. There was nothing. That doesn't prove anything, but it does give you more of a circumstantial explanation.

[Bob White]

"I still don't see how scouts' work for this or that party compromises BSA or any 501© clause organization. Of course I understand that BSA's official PR is not going to endorse working for a political party."

 

No one said the Boy Couldn't do whatever he chose as a citizen. But the name and image of the BSA is not owned by the boy, or his unit or the CO. It is owned and trademarked by the BSA with the local council being the licensee. The boy cannot give the endorsement of the BSA to a political party or candidate by using the name, or identifying emblems of the BSA.

 

So if he lead a project that fit that description he could not mention scouting or use the scout uniform, or make any connection to scouting in his conversations to plan, carry-out or publicize the project.

But as a non-affiliated citizen he can participate in the political process to whatever extent he chose.

 

PLEEEASE go to New Leader Essentials and learn more about the structure of scouting and of the policies that control it.