Bush wants natural gas exploration next to Philmont

[OldGreyEagle]

Where's the moderator when someone's dissin' me?

 

How soon they forget, If I remember right, wasn't a post attacking you edited out in this very thread? I do what I can FOG, but I am not Superman and you certainly are no Lois Lane. I am no Spiderman, and you are assuredly no Mary Jane Watson, I am not, oh well, you get the idea...

[mrs red feather]

Fat Old Guy,

 

Food for thought? Well, maybe. With only 10 posts Backpacker hasn't been around long enough to know you well enough to deliver insults.

 

Hmmm...that didn't come out quite right, did it?

[tall buffalo guard]

yet again, the voice of logic and reason are tossed aside in favor of the voice of apathy and anger. the debate here should remain on the topic of the gas drilling in new mexico, whether it is right or not and whether there is anything we can do to stop it. crawl down off your high horses and work together...maybe we can find an amicable solution and fix a problem instead of just fighting about it...i still say we oppose the drilling because of the devastating environmental impact. even if 650000 scouting feet have tread on philmont soil, i dont think they have caused as much damage as a giant oil company would; i'm sure el paso energy has never even thought about practicing low impact camping.

[NJCubScouter]

OGE, I'd also say that you are no Underdog, and FOG is no Polly Purebred.

 

In other threads I have noted that the role of Bible-Thumper does not fit FOG very well, to that I think we can add Damsel In Distress.

 

As for Philmont, I've got it, let's drill for gas in half of it and pave the other half over and build condos. Who needs mountains and trees? The business of America is business, let's get cracking.

 

[scoutldr]

Since someone seemed interested, El Paso Natural Gas is a publicly held company. I am a stockholder. If this deal goes through, I will make about 3 bucks. The big winners will be those whose mutual funds and pension plans invest in this company...probably some or most of those on this board, unless you ensure you invest only in "green" companies. It was formerly a subsidiary of Tenneco, Inc, (formerly Tennessee Gas Transmission Co, stock symbol TGT) which also owned Monroe Automotive (shock absorbers and mufflers), Hefty (plastic bags), Newport News Shipbuilding (aircraft carriers and submarines), and some others. The conglomerate has since been dismantled.

 

For those who are opposed to besmirching the wilderness, why don't we start making a difference in your own neighborhood...take the car keys away from your kids and make them get back on the school bus. And next time we need a gallon of milk, let's walk the 6 blocks to the store. Let's all admit it...we're all for saving the environment...as long as it doesnt' inconvenience us.

[Fuzzy Bear]

scoutldr: This is one stock that I hope you don't make your three bucks on.

 

tall buffalo: As far as working together, I don't think we all are on the same side. As far as getting off the high horses, that will only happen when the cows don't come home.

 

Let's work together on resolving this issue in November.

 

[Backpacker]

Fuzzy Bear , you are once again the voice of reason, Thanks.

 

FOG, Remember you attacked me first and hot and heavy I just defended myself. If I hurt your feelings, its unfortunate that you can dish it out but can't take it. Email me your address and I will mail you a box of Kleenex.

 

OGE, Thanks for your restraint with these posts.

 

There are two very strong viewpoints in here and as FB stated the decision will be made in November.

[Fat Old Guy]

"FOG, Remember you attacked me first and hot and heavy I just defended myself."

 

Har! 'Twas you who had your offensive post deleted. As for "hot and heavy," I called you an "ilk" which as a tree hugger you know is a type of large deer. You're pretty sensitive, aren't you?

[packsaddle]

Things are moving right along but I'm still stuck on the comments about Philmont Scout Ranch and Phillips Petroleum....

Let's see now, Waite Phillips bought this property from George Webster and used it as his summer home. Waite Phillips later decided to let BSA use part of it and after some negotiations BSA ended up with a large spread, initially called 'Philturn Rocky Mountain Scout Camp' - later 'Philmont'.

It has been implied that because BSA benefitted from big oil, it would be ironic for BSA to oppose environmental impacts by big oil. I wonder how Waite Phillips would respond to this issue. Would he drill at his summer home? Hmmmm, could be.

 

But where I am uncertain as to the sentiments of dead persons, I am absolutely certain that methane is the same regardless of how it is produced. One carbon atom to which are attached four hydrogens. The process of biological methanogenesis is outlined here:

http://faculty.washington.edu/leighj/mmmethanogenesis.html

This process occurs naturally in our intestines, the rumen of cows (and, I suppose, ilk ), in termites, and in lake sediments.

Alessandro Volta (as in the electrical unit) in the late 1800s performed an experiment called the 'Volta Experiment' where he collected gas from sediments and demonstrated that it was combustible. Our boys sometimes repeat this experiment at summer camp although sediments are not involved.

But wait, there's more. Worldwide, methane is one of the 'greenhouse gases' and interestingly, sediments are the greatest source of naturally-produced methane, termites are in a distant second place.

In the U.S., the largest single source of methane released to the atmosphere is landfills. But if all fossil fuel activities are combined, they would be the largest source of release to the atmosphere in the U.S. Source:

http://www.epa.gov/methane/sources.html

[EagleInKY]

"For those who are opposed to besmirching the wilderness, why don't we start making a difference in your own neighborhood...take the car keys away from your kids and make them get back on the school bus. And next time we need a gallon of milk, let's walk the 6 blocks to the store. Let's all admit it...we're all for saving the environment...as long as it doesnt' inconvenience us. "

 

Well said, Scoutldr.

 

As for Philmont, I've got it, let's drill for gas in half of it and pave the other half over and build condos. Who needs mountains and trees? The business of America is business, let's get cracking.

 

NJ- That's certainly not what I said. My view is, if there is natural gas there and it can be removed without a major impact on Philmont, then go for it. If there's not enough there to worry about, or they can't do it without impacting the environment, then I'm opposed to it. The problem is that you guys are opposed to it without even doing the research and seeing the options.

 

Most supporters of the gas issue probably drive SUV's and don't think twice about burning as much energy as fast as they possibly can.

 

Sorry, once again, the tree huggers immediately assume that we're all evil because we are open to looking at options. I've never owned an SUV. The lowest MPG I've ever had with a vehicle is 24 MPG. And, I've been following the hybrid market and hope to move that direction soon. How 'bout you?

 

hey, would someone explain the reason for all these insults?

 

Good question tall man. Backpacker doesn't seem to be able to make a statement without first hurling an insult or two. I'm not defending FOG. Lord knows he has gone on the attack many times. But this guy could be the next reincarnation of some of our previous members.

[Fat Old Guy]

OGE said, " and you certainly are no Lois Lane."

 

How do you know? You've never seen me in a mini-skirt and high heels.

[Fat Old Guy]

OGE said, " and you certainly are no Lois Lane."

 

How do you know? You've never seen me in a mini-skirt and high heels.

[hops_scout]

Eagle, I, too, have been watching the hybrid cars. That's BAD stuff right now. They make no sounds. That sounds;) great, doesnt it? Here's why it isnt so great:

 

Since they make no sounds, rescue personnel cannot know where it is on or off when they have to cut it open. Thats a good way of hurting the rescuer.

 

If anybody wants it, I can find the resources for you.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

My aging BMW has impact sensors that shut of the ignition in a collision. Supposedly, the central locking system unlocks as well to reduce the chance of being trapped in the car (I've never tested that function). I'd hope that newer cars would have a similar system.

[OldGreyEagle]

Way back, Way back long long ago when I first started reading Popular Mechanics (back when it was printed on papyrus reeds) I remmber articles about electric cars. In the greatest movie ever made "Follow Me Boys" Aunt Hettie drove an electric. Electric cars have always been with us in one form or another as long as there have been cars. And they always had problems. Usually it was range and speed brought about by a combination of poor battery performance and weight. Back in the original oil crunch of the 70's I remember people talking about how the US needed to get away from foreign oil dependence. Electric cars were once more talked about, but again the battery and recharging time were issues. GM, Ford et al all talked about how they would LOVE to have economically viable electric cars, but alas the technology just wasnt there. New batteries were developed and attempts made but just nothing produced a viable car at reasonable cost. That is until now, now Toyota and Honda both have economically viable hybrid vehicles. And just now, as their sales begine to climb, all of sudden the inherent quiet of the vehicle is in question. Now, as more people look at hybrids as practical and a hybrid SUV is due, now all of a sudden hybrids are portrayed as inherently dangerous. Where did that concern come from? In all the past, in all the work done on electrics, in all the articles I read about them, danger to the rescuers were never mentioned. I have seen prototypes of electric cars since the first Chicago Car Show I atteneded in 1973 (I shook Clayton Moore and Jay Silverheels' hand at the Dodge exhibit, the origianl good guy in the white hat dont you know)

 

Never was a danger to rescuer personnel mentioned. I just wonder why this inheremt defect in electric cars, present since the inception of the vehicle is so important now?