You can't fire him...

[hotdesk]

Okay, we all know that you can't fire a volunteer, but what can you do? What do you do with a scouter who trys to do too much and tends to take over others jobs??? What do you do when his mom is the Chartered Organzation Rep. (which our troop regards as the highest position in the troop)??? The scouts and scouters really don't respect him much because of his leadership methods and his personality. He trys to do so much between District, local scout camp, troop, OA lodge, wrestling fed that he is in, and church that he doesn't get anything really "done". He's caused many to flat out leave the troop.

 

However, his main problem is that he doesn't see himself as a problem. He thinks he is just a normal volunteer. We suggested that he shed off some of the extra duties he has gathered but he said now was not the time.

 

What do you do??? How do you remain nice and kind about it??? Any ideas or suggestions???

[Fat Old Guy]

"Okay, we all know that you can't fire a volunteer,"

 

Sez who?

[Eamonn]

FOG is right a volunteer can be removed.

Your troop is right in thinking that the COR is the "Top Dog" in a unit.

While there isn't very much that can be done to change the personality of a person. You can do a lot in how you get along with them.

It would be a super world if we all got along with each other all the time. Sad to say I don't see it happening anytime soon. We are however Scouts and as such we have made an oath to do our best to "Help other people at all times and keep the Scout Law."

As to why do people wear so many hats? If we think about it, it's because we let them. When someone doesn't step up to the plate, very often we don't go out of our way to find the best person for the job.We allow a warm body to fill the position.

One of the hardest parts of being a Leader is having to say the No word. While we must never try to be unkind, there are times when due to various reasons: Lack of training, lack of skill, or having the wrong attitude, the team leader has to reign the person in. Sometimes a gentle nudge is all that is needed, sometimes some sort of training or re-training is needed and sad as it may be sometimes the person is just the wrong person for that particular job and even if he or she is a volunteer we have to let them down as kindly and as gently as is possible.

This can be really hard if the person "Above" you has the idea that the person is doing a wonderful job. We had a man in the District that would volunteer to do just about anything and everything. He would attend the committee meetings at the council and spout out all the great things that he was going to do. The guys in the office were very impressed. They questioned when they noticed that the nominating committee didn't put his name forward. The truth was that the guy wasn't doing anything.

One way that I have found to get things "Done" is to work with the person or the committee and set goals. Normally in our case they are 30 day goals, as we meet about once a month. I then hold that person accountable for meeting the goal. Before the time is up I talk or meet with them to see how they are getting along. At times I have found myself getting upset and saying things like "This isn't good enough." Or asking "What's the matter, why wasn't his done - You said that..." After a while the message gets home. If it doesn't then I have to explain to the person that this isn't working out and that I need people that can be trusted to keep their word.

Eamonn.

[evmori]

Volunteers can be "fired". We have done it in my Troop in the past! Gotta follow procedure, though!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Eamonn's idea about the 30-day work plan is perfect. At each meeting the volunteers would report on their accomplishments since the last meeting. Assignments not completed need to be brought out into the open and discussed. If the function of the volunteer's position is not being fulfilled, then it's time to have a talk about the importance of the position, and work out a plan to meet the needs.

 

Do you have enough people on your committee to handle the jobs that need to be done? A volunteer cannot "take over" jobs unless the committee chairman is allowing that to happen. For example, if you have a treasurer that handles finances, how can someone else step in and assume that position without the complicity of the present treasurer and the committee chair?

 

Don't ask him to give up duties. Reassign them to someone else. Limit his duties to those required to function in the position he holds. Maybe you should write up job descriptions. The Troop Committee Guidebook does a good job of defining positions.

 

This doesnt sound like a case for removal. Rather rein him in a bit.

[hotdesk]

The only problem that I have seen with the advice is that if he tried to do what has been suggested he would go and tell his mother, who happens to be the Chartered Organization Rep, and she would be rather upset. She sees him do good, quality, work. Not getting on the nerves of scouts and scouters and driving some of them out of the troop. She would not be too happy with the commitee.

 

So how do we get around the fact that he has her to back him up???

 

And anyways when he does his most important job for the troop, that he has, Advancment Coord. he comes up with crazy policies and rules that prevent scouts from advancing in a timely manner.

 

And on top of that he does things that aren't his responsiblity without asking the person who actually has the responsiblity. He is always finding a way into everything. Rather it be that he simply shows up to things that the PLC does and won't respect the SM's wishes or that he gets upset when others try to do their job.(This message has been edited by hotdesk)

[NJCubScouter]

And anyways when he does his most important job for the troop, that he has, Advancment Coord. he comes up with crazy policies and rules that prevent scouts from advancing in a timely manner.

 

As I understand your posts, the other leaders don't want to take on this person directly because of feared retribution from his mother. But on the above-quoted problem, a solution to this problem does not necessarily depend on the other leaders. This person is not permitted to adopt any policies or rules that would delay anyone from advancing. (Can you give a few examples, by the way?) The requirements are the requirements, and when they are satisfied the boy must be given the appropriate recognition. The parents of the boys affected can appeal to council, and if you are talking about a real delay (in terms of months as opposed to a week or 2), they probably should.

[FScouter]

A difficult situation. I don't see a simple resolution. But you need to act.

 

Nothing will change until you and the other adults push for change. The trick is to get the COR to see that change is necessary. That will require that all the "bad stuff" be brought up at your committee meetings and discussed.

 

The SM is being ignored? Then the SM must relate his issues at your committee meeting and ask for help from the committee. It's OK if your one-man-show is present. He needs to justify to the committee his reasons for interfering with the SM duties. Put him on the spot.

 

As advancement coordinator, he prevents advancement and crafts his own policies? At a committee meeting, ask for an explanation of how his actions or inactions are supported by the BSA policies written in the Advancement Committee book. Be prepared to quote the book and how his actions directly conflict with the book. Insist that the troop follow written BSA policies. No adult leader has the right to fiddle with BSA policy. How would your COR be able to support this? Put him on the spot.

 

He butts into the responsibilities of others? They must say "NO THANKS, I'VE GOT THAT HANDLED". They also need to bring this up at the committee meeting and directly state that "I'll ask for help when I need it, but to interfere without being asked makes my job more difficult." Put him on the spot. Push your committee chairman to recognize the responsibilities of each committee position.

 

Bottom line: would you rather have a smoothly running committee, or continue to allow mr. one-man-show and his mother to run everything? Take a stand one way or the other. Mom and son cannot take your power unless you give it to them.

[hotdesk]

Okay one of his new policies is that he will only provide Board of Reviews on the third monday of every month. However, there has been months where scouts need a board and wait until the third Monday and no boards are planned.

 

A classic example is the fact that we have a scout that is 2nd Class and has been waiting for the Board of Review for over 3 months now. If he could've had his board when he was first ready he would be within a month of becoming a Star Scout.

 

Another thing that has people real annoyed is that we rent out two canvas tents in our troop. Both tents rent for over $100 a shot. In some years we have made as much as 1,300 to 1,500 just from this. However, we usually have at least 6 or 7 rentals a year. The problem is that since he took over as coordinator this year we have only had 2 rentals and those were from parents of a scout in our troop (and troop members get a 50% discount). The guys that are our big backers as far as this fundraiser go have disappeared and no one has any ideas why. He was asked by some in our troop to share the responsiblity but he said no.

[FScouter]

"... we have a scout that is 2nd Class and has been waiting for the board of review for over 3 months ..."

Scene: Your next board meeting . . .

Concerned Committee Member (you): I see we were unable to give Billy Secondclass his board of review last month. In fact, he has been put off for the last 3 months. Is there some reason why we cant schedule him and make it happen?

Mr. 1-man-band: One of the board members was unable to meet on that Monday. Things come up you know.

CCM: Yes, I know what you mean. I was free that night. You can call me any time to fill in.

Mr. 1MB: Thanks, but I already have people to do boards of review.

CCM: Thats great, but something has come up 3 months in a row and weve let Billy down 3 times. He missed the last Court of Honor too because his advancement was held up. If our policy is to do boards of review each month, its important for us to demonstrate our trustworthiness and make it happen. Im willing to be an alternate if you need me at the last minute.

2nd Concerned Committee Member: That sounds reasonable to me. After all, since part of Scouting is to teach boys to be trustworthy, as a committee we should be able to live up to our promises.

Mr. 1MB: But sometimes I have other commitments and we just cant do it. I was busy trying to rent the tent. Billy can wait for the next one.

CCM: Im the equipment coordinator for the troop and I appreciate your help with the tent, but trust me, I can handle that. So, how about getting the entire committee involved in boards of review? The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book says that all committee members should participate in that, and it would make it easier for you to convene the minimum of 3 people. And Billy wont have to wait. Im available all this week. Lets schedule it now and get it done right away. Can anyone else here be a part of the board?

Other Concerned Committee Members: Im available. Me too. I can help.

Mr. 1MB: Im in charge of this and Ill set the dates.

CCM: Look, 1MB, youre a very busy guy and you do a lot for Scouting. But we can help you get these things done. We owe it to our boys to get boards of review done on a timely basis, and to get them done when we say we will get them done. I think we owe it to the boy to clear our calendars and get this done NOW, in the next day or two. Were here to support you in making it happen. Heres my cell phone. Lets call Billy right now and schedule him for tomorrow night.

 

The point is, he will not change on his own. You, individually, or as a committee, have to push and facilitate change.

 

[FScouter]

hotdesk -

What is your position in the troop? How are things working out with the boy that hasn't had a board of review?

[Eagle1984]

His position is as Jr ASM.

 

 

The BOR's have been held and everyone is advancing just fine. Thanks for the concern and encouragement

[Fuzzy Bear]

Eagle 1984,

 

We are so happy to know that the problem is solved. By the way, what is your position in the Troop?

 

FB

[Bob White]

Hotdesk,

 

As the JASM, what are your specific responsibilities?

[Eamonn]

Hotdesk,

I am a little unsure how to put this in a nice way? But I can't help but feel that you are over stepping your mark.

As a youth member you need to allow the adults to do what they have to do.If the SM and the Committee have issues they are adult issues and they are the people to deal with them.

While it may sound very old fashioned and at times be a hard pill to swallow I firmly believe that young people should respect their elders.

Us elders need to be careful what we allow our kids to hear or overhear!! Sure we have people in the district that I think have a problem walking and chewing gum at the same time. But I'm aware that I have a 16 year old pair of ears in the house.Kids hear stuff and can repeat what they hear, sad to say at times they repeat what they think they heard!

Eamonn