Homosexuals in Scouting

[Fuzzy Bear]

I am not sure what color the unifrom should be.

 

FB

[boleta]

I think that BSA should consider a don't ask policy when it comes to this issue because of the extreme alienation of some supporting groups. Even FOG says- ya can't tell by lookin'! I agree with BPwannabe@137 that Scouting does not teach sexuality.

 

OldGreyEagle quotes:

 

WHEREAS the national officers further agree that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the traditional values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law and that an avowed homosexual cannot serve as a role model for the values of the Oath and Law;

 

This comes predominantly from the current thought that Homosexuals are not morally straight. When "morally straight" was written by Seaton and Lord B-P, however, it had nothing to do with sexuality. Many homosexuals would say they are just as moral as the next "guy".

 

Further, the law says Physically Strong and we sure haven't thrown out the large number of obese Scouters (they are everywhere it seems) for gross violation of this part of the Oath.

 

 

 

 

 

[silver-shark]

"I think that BSA should consider a don't ask policy when it comes to this issue because of the extreme alienation of some supporting groups."

 

Hi boleta,

 

The BSA has already made this the policy. You can review the press release that confirms this at:

 

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=fs

[scoutldr]

Yes, there are homosexuals in scouting. Just as they are in every other segment of society. It's their behavior that I would object to, just as I would object to an "avowed" heterosexual whose behavior was overtly sexual in nature.

[NJCubScouter]

Boleta says:

 

I think that BSA should consider a don't ask policy when it comes to this issue because of the extreme alienation of some supporting groups."

 

Which groups? The problem with this issue is that no matter which way the BSA went, there would be "alienation" on one side or another. That is one of the reasons why each unit (or CO) should be permitted to decide for itself.

 

As for the "don't ask" aspect, silver-shark answered that. Whether one likes the policy or not, it is a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

 

[Rooster7]

Scoutldr,

 

Yes, there are homosexuals in scouting. Just as they are in every other segment of society. It's their behavior that I would object to, just as I would object to an "avowed" heterosexual whose behavior was overtly sexual in nature.

 

Interesting. So, if my avowed 16-year old heterosexual son could control his behavior (not be overt about his sexuality), youd have no problem with him sharing a tent with your 13- or 14-year old daughter? I use this example, because your thoughts suggest that youd allow your son to share a tent with a homosexual (given that the said homosexual is not flaunting his sexuality).

 

I know a little something about hormones in teenaged heterosexual boys and how well they control their urges. Armed with this knowledge, I have no problem in saying youd be a fool to put your daughter in my sons tent (hypothetically speaking). I cant say I have the same knowledge about teenaged homosexual boys. However, Im going to climb out on a limb here. If you know of a particular 16-year old boy in your troop thats a homosexual, Id highly recommend that you ask your son to stay out of his tent.

 

The BSA policy is sound- for many reasons.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Ah, I knew Rooster could not stay away from this thread for long.

 

Of course, the BSA policy has nothing to do with who shares a tent with who. (There are other policies that do, but none of them in any way prevent a "closeted" gay youth from sharing a tent with anyone.) The policy has to do with role models. At least, that is what the BSA says.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If it is protection you want, then open communication is a good start. That even goes for the daughter that may be sleeping in somebody's tent. How did she get here anyway?

 

FB

[scoutldr]

Wow, Rooster, what a leap! Nowhere did I say that the YP guidelines be thrown out the window. Besides, the boys in my troop won't even shower in front of each other, much less share a tent with a GIRL! When I was 14, I was in one of the first Explorer posts that went co-ed. The term "Exploring" took on a whole new meaning, despite the best efforts of our (bless their naive little hearts) adult advisors. Now that I am pushing 50, I'm pretty sure they were not that naive after all.

 

Quit being absurd. We need to prevent child molestation, sure. But it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. My biggest objection is the BSA's seemingly selective morality. As I have said before, once we get rid of the homos and atheists, who will be next? Alcoholics? Wife beaters? Fornicators? Fat guys?(there goes the Commissioner corps!).

[Fuzzy Bear]

A defense of the Commissioner's Corps:

 

The latest figures on the average weight of a Scout Commissioner was reported to be at or under 250 pounds. They were only able to find four subjects for the study. One of them had been inactive for the last two years. One had not been assigned any units and the other two were ADC's that had not started recruiting. Some scientists thought that this study was skewed but later findings confirmed the accuracy of the initial findings. It was determined that weight had little to do with the efficacy of the person and their job. Several rounds of cake and coffee were had by all.

 

So, don't start here!

 

FB

 

[silver-shark]

"My biggest objection is the BSA's seemingly selective morality. As I have said before, once we get rid of the homos and atheists, who will be next? Alcoholics? Wife beaters? Fornicators? Fat guys?(there goes the Commissioner corps!)."

 

Good morning scoutldr,

 

Are you truly of the opinion that there haven't been any alcoholics, wife beaters, or fornicators dismissed from the BSA over the years? I would be completely shocked if this were actually the case. In fact, I would be shocked if there weren't hundreds or maybe thousands of cases of this happening over the years, compared to the relatively few cases as they pertain to homosexuals.

 

The difference is, that these other folks took their medicine and went home without all the fanfare.

[bt01]

Homosexuals in Scouting??? If they are scouts (under 18) then this is a topic that should be with there parents.

 

[9muckraker7]

I don't see what everyone's problem with gays in scouting is. No, I am not gay, nor do I agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I think that tolerance should be a quality of all scouts. Let us remember that a scout is friendly, courteous, kind, and reverent, and respects all people and their beliefs or lifestyles differing from his/hers.

Suuuure this is a bit idealistic, as no one can be such a "flawless" scout, but tolerance doesn't mean AGREEING with something, it just means putting up with it. We've all put up with some pretty ignorant, arrogant, or incompetent people in the past, so what is to prevent us from putting up with homosexuals in scouting, many of whom are indeed trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent people?

[Rooster7]

Scoutldr,

 

Wow, Rooster, what a leap!

 

Was it really? Lets examine your post. If Im not mistaken you basically said, other than overt sexual behavior, you had no objection to homosexuals in Scouting. Is that a misrepresentation? If so, I apologize. If not, lets apply a little logic here. So for argument sake, lets say the BSA allows avowed homosexuals boys into Scouting. And for argument sake, lets say these homosexuals do not flaunt their sexuality. Now, how do you propose to stop the situation that I described from happening? There is no reason to believe that your heterosexual son will always share a tent with another heterosexual. If the BSA allowed homosexuals into Scouting, are you proposing that they modify their Youth Protection policy to prevent homosexual boys from sharing tents with heterosexual boys? If so, how would this be monitored and enforced? If homosexual boys are allowed in Scouting, how are the YP guidelines going to protect the heterosexual boys? Are there going to be separate tenting arrangements?

 

Just for the record, put me down for the following Yes, we all have own our sins. But, to be sure, homosexuality is a sin. Its a perversity. In fact, Im convinced that it eventually leads to more perversity. And despite what some on this forum say, there are a disproportionate number of homosexual pedophiles.

 

My biggest objection is the BSA's seemingly selective morality. As I have said before, once we get rid of the homos and atheists, who will be next? Alcoholics? Wife beaters? Fornicators? Fat guys?

 

Perhaps these self-avowed adulterers, alcoholics, wife beaters, and fornicators have better representation? Or maybe, since these are conservative sins, they are just over looked by the right leaning BSA. OR, PERHAPS, if these folks made their bad behavior public and then lobbied the BSA to have their lifestyle accepted, PERHAPSJUST PERHAPS, the BSA would treat them just like the homosexuals. PLEASE, make a fair comparison. If Alcoholics created a national advocacy organization, solicited the backing of Hollywood, and then attacked the BSA for not being open-minded, they too would be rebuffed. And clearly, if a self avowed alcoholic proclaimed his right to be one or rather argued that he had no problem, no troop would have him as a leader.

 

[nldscout]

The problem with the concept of allowing CO to deceide if a Gay person is a good leader or not and weather to allow them in thier troop or pack is what do you do at Multi-unit events.

 

What happens to the Camporee's and Jamboree's? This would create more of a mess than there is now.

 

I for one cast my vote for the present policy. If you know the rules, you have to deceide either to join and follow them or not join, simple as that.