What Do We Tell The Kids?

[Eamonn]

Over the past few weeks a couple of things have happened that have set the "Little Gray Cells" working.

One was the speech that Bill Cosby made on July 2,2004.I found myself agreeing with him, while at the same time wondering what I can do to help.

I think a lot of black kids are being put down by black entertainers and some are being misled by the stuff that they are picking up from the media. OJ has some of this stuff on his computer, how do I tell him that using the "N" word is not acceptable, when he hears black musicians singing it and black kids listening to it and thinking that it is OK?

The other thing that has been getting to me is Slot Machines. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has just passed a law saying that slot machines are to become legal. I am not a gambler, I don't have any strong feelings about gambling. Her That Must Be Obeyed, likes to visit casinos and play. What is getting to me is all the hype and media coverage that these slot machines are getting. The big message is that they will bring down property taxes and the money will help educate our kids. Again I wonder what sort of message we are sending to our kids? I can't imagine me ever telling OJ "OK Son, you need a car heres $100.00 go gamble it and see if you can win the money."

I think that somehow we are not sending the right message and the lines are becoming very blurred. Many of the values that I was raised with are now being questioned and I don't like the answers that are coming up.

Eamonn.

[evmori]

Eamonn,

I love Blackjack & Poker! Slot machines are the truest form of gambling there ever was! What do we tell the kids? I think we tell them that while there is a chance they might hit the jackpot. There is also a chance they might end up losing everything. And the odds are not in their favor. However, if they work hard & not look for the easy way out, they will be happy. The odds are in their favor with this method.

 

I really don't think the slots in PA are going to bring the windfall Fast Eddie thinks! I think he has other interests in mind & shoved his agenda through. What scares me is what happens when everyone realizes slots aren't the answer. What happens then?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

What do we tell the kids? We ask them who pays the electric bill for the Las Vegas strip. We ask who pays the utility bills at Trumps Taj. In every round of celebrity poker, there is always one winner, but how many losers?

[JimmyD]

I'm all against the slot machines. Once I found out that some of those places that are using them are not for lowering the taxes. There used to help pay for philly's and Pitt's new arenas.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I studied gambling and then gambled.

 

I have been carefully lucky and won on most occasions. It is one great feeling and highly enjoyable. There is absolutely nothing like it.

 

On the other hand, I would rather dig a ditch for the same amount of money. Since I have dug ditches for a living as a youth, I know that it does not compare in feelings of joy.

 

Study the odds. You will never have that 51% in your favor. All you have is your little pot of money and time. All three things work against you.

 

If a person wants to make money, then work for it. Work honestly, pay the government their share and stash the cash in the bank drawer. You will get your 83% with that 6% or 9% interest.

 

You will not be drawn and quartered emotionally and financially by the one armed bandit or the game of choice.

 

'He desperately longed to see and hear the beautiful Sirens along the coast. He told his men to pour hot wax in their ears so they would not hear him scream orders to untie him and so they would not be seduced by their song. They tied him to the mast and on they sailed into the nightmare ahead.'

 

So if I have a choice, sail the long way around.

 

FB

 

[BadenP]

I do not believe there is anything wrong with gambling if you can control it, the problem most people can't stop when they should. I will tell you one thing though I lived in Las Vegas (sin city) for a while, there is a whole other side to that city no one ever hears about. For example the friends of scouting community campaign there lasts one week and always comes in at least 200% of goal thanks in large part to those casinos. It is amazing how the council there is in fat city and pays their professionals accordingly. They offer one of the best scouting programs I have ever seen. There are many other charities there that can perform all kinds of miracles due to the big money in that city. I know there is also a lot of crime there as well, but away from all the tinsel and lights of the Strip it is a whole different town. Do the scouts care where the money comes from that allows them to go to camp or Philmont for the first time? What would you tell the kids? I used to condemn the whole gambling scene until I saw what that money base does for that city. The majority of players do lose, but most can afford to lose what they do, for those who can't afford it they need to stay away from casinos and visit Gamblers Anonymous instead.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[dsteele]

What do we tell the kids? Interesting question, as always, Eamonn.

 

I'm not a parent and will resist no argument telling me to shut up and that I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't.

 

That doesn't stop me from having an opinion on any topic.

 

What do we tell the children? This is a question that has been aroudn for years and generations. It applies to all questions and to all who have a hand (or finger) in child rearing.

 

We tell them what we want them to believe and to live. It only sticks if we live it ourselves, regardless of what we tell them. So, to boil it down to a somewhat mathematical formula:

 

Tell the child + live it yourself = (hopefully. This is the variable) what the child will grow into as an adult.

 

_____

 

This philosophy is brought to you by Uncleguinea and the people who told me and lived it along with a variable called the BSA and the morphing into a man.

 

Unc.

[packsaddle]

Ed, I share some of your interest in blackjack and poker, mostly because of the probability problems they pose. However, gambling seems to support a 'value' that states, 'it is good to get something for nothing'. I think the lesson that many lose while few win may be weakened by self-deception, specifically that we will be the exception.

I know my children will try this eventually. I hope their first experiences are as losers and that they keep this perspective as their first impression.

Fuzzy Bear, I can think of many activities that are far more gratifying than winning at the slots. These include good food and many others, some of which are unmentionable. But I do see your point. Just remember that saying about love of money.

[MrsSmith]

Good thread, Eamonn. I have often wondered how people explain their beliefs and behavior to their kids. As for the lines between right and wrong becoming blurred, those who don't see the lines, deny there are lines. And I do think more and more people don't see the lines; That is scary.

 

Wow, this is heavy for 6 a.m.

[OldGreyEagle]

In the end, I am not sure its more important what we tell the kids, than what we show the kids.

 

We teach scouts to be trustworthy and have Enron plastered over the media

 

We teach scouts to be kind and have murder trials brought to us live daily

 

We teach...

 

Actually I had a whole bunch of these laid out, but actually the scouts already know life is full of contradictions. The best thing we can do is provide a role model

[Laurie]

I remember being rather puzzled when our first son entered pre-k and the teacher made a comment that I just didn't get: "lessons are caught not taught". So, I listened carefully to what our son would tell us about each morning of pre-k, and I watched his teacher in action, and I began to see what she meant. At this age, it wasn't the academics that were being focused on nearly so much as helping a child learn to adjust to a classroom setting. The children adored her and were so well-behaved in class, but I knew some of them, and they weren't so well-behaved outside of class! Why then the good results? She respected the children, treated them fairly, was consistent: she modeled the behavior she wanted them to learn. Have you ever had that sick feeling when your child would say something or do something, knowing that you sure didn't teach it, but you did do or say it? I have. All too often in fact. My sincerest desire though is to live out what I would like for my children to learn. My words mean nothing compared to how I act and react to others and circumstances. I think it's ok to question values, and I encourage our children to question them. They need to have their own values (which I do hope are those my husband and I wish for them), to take ownership of them, or when faced with the confusing and often unfair stuff of life, they may be tempted to erase the lines others have drawn. If they have drawn the lines, they may be more inclined to keep their eyes on them. Thought-provoking questions Eamonn.

[Eamonn]

I'm a little unsure if the world today is a better or a worse place then it was when I was growing up.While we certainly have a lot more toys and labor saving devises,we seem to have to work a lot harder and longer to get them.

Institutions that at one time were beyond reproach are no longer that way.

Still the news isn't all bad there are still lots of good people who in their own way, in their own little corner of the world are really trying too, if not make things better at least stop things from getting worse.

While I know that I can't put everything that is wrong right. I do know that the now not so little Lad that sleeps in my house most nights has been given a lot of the tools that will make him a nice person and hopefully a good adult. While our church teaches love and there is nothing wrong with love, at home we seem to lean more on respect.

Respect and good manners, still count for a lot. Not just the "Please and Thank You" but the idea of thinking before you do or say something.

When I look at OJ, I in a very smug way think that while my work here is not done and it will always be a work in progress. Still things don't look too bad. He does have many of the values that his mother and I have along with some that we have over the years let slip. Maybe it's just his age, but he has a much stronger sense of justice and fair play then I now have.When I was his age I thought that politics and my very strong left wing ideals would save the world. He has no interest in politics and is very much a victim of the 30 second sound bite. Still he forges ahead doing what he thinks is right.

It is sad that the black music producers have seen fit to not respect the black and white kids who listen to the music that they put out. It is sadder that I along with my Scouting pals haven't found a way of reaching out to these black kids.But worse still is that so many of my Scouting pals just don't want to. Maybe in time if people like OJ keep their sense of justice and fair play they will take on the job?

Sure I agree with all those who have said that we are the role model and that our actions will speak louder then our words ever will. Still it doesn't hurt for us old folks to stop every now and then and take stock of where we are and what we believe in. If we aren't sure of our values it will be impossible for us to pass them on.

Eamonn.

[acco40]

As they say, "actions speak louder than words." Also, "Do as I say, not as I do." The prime qualification for being a Scout leader (and it is NOT be heterosexual and believe in God) is to be a proper role model for our youth.

 

With regard to the original post, a big lesson about right and wrong to teach to our youth is that not everything is legislated. The statement, "just because it is not illegal doesn't make it right", comes to mind. The Scout Oath states that we should "keep physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight." As Scouts and Scouters we promise to do this. Should there be a law against physical weakness? Mental sleepiness? Moral crookedness? Of course not. Is gambling wrong? Go ask no other authority than the Pope about bingo! Is eating a Hostess twinkie wrong? If eating one is okay but 100 not, what about 5? As always, the devil is in the details.

 

What I try to teach my children is that they need to make right/wrong decisions based on their own personal developed morals and character. Don't rely on others, be it the church, Scouts, parents, legal system, etc. to make these decisions for you. You have to trust yourself. Now, one needs to make sure that the youth have the mental capacity to really understand that statement. A five year old may interpret that to mean he can do anything he wants. That is not the message I want to convey.

 

With luck, our youth will develop a strong moral compass that doesn't change with the wind.

[Fuzzy Bear]

My Mother used to have these judgments about right and wrong. I used to kid her about hiding the Book of Answers. I told her I wanted a look at it sometime. She would laugh and say it was right because she said so.

 

These days, I try to supply the reasons as well as the judgments. I wonder what my boys will add to the Book in the future.

 

FB

 

[Laurie]

Fuzzy, that sounds rather familiar. In my case, my mom would tell us something, and it was my dad who would say "because she's your mother and you listen to her". I don't recall questioning my parents until I was in my late teens, and then of course I knew everything Interestingly enough my parents and my husband don't understand why I tell the kids the reason for what I tell them is right/wrong and the like. Our first son responded to explanations though, and I figure it helps him to form his own understanding of how to apply that judgement. The second child could care less about reasons--just did whatever he was told. The third is asking why AND challenging the reasons. Never a dull moment.