Thanks, Alpha Phi Omega for NOT discriminating!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

Bob, I keep calling you a liar because you ARE a liar, and a rather blatant one. You continue to claim that the BSA doesn't get any government money when the Old Baldy website SAYS they got government money, and when the ACLU complaint includes a copy of the actual contract signed by the Old Baldy council for a $15,000 grant.

 

And predictably, you whine and plug your ears.

[LovetoCamp]

I'm going to have to follow Bob's lead on this one. Godless little Merlyn goes on the list with Wheeler and the lying canadian.

 

Bang!!! I've hit the reprobate begone button!!!

[Eamonn]

Question for the Gentleman from the State of New Jersey.

I in no way claim to be Lord Denning reborn. However looking over the Hud / BSA suit. I see that membership of the BSA was not a requirement of the BSA getting the grant. They were contracted to do the Boy Talks and weekly programs. They were not paid to sign up these young people to join the BSA.

This being the case doesn't that make the suit against HUD groundless?

Just asking.

Eamonn

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

If you'll look at the units of service (page 23 in the PDF file), the Old Baldy council got a point for:

1) each school visited

2) each boy who hears the recruitment talk

3) each boy who enrolls in the scouting program

The grant paid for these units of service.

 

Also, the contract requires that ALL services provided follow the nondiscrimination requirements, which means that atheists would have to be allowed to enroll in the Old Baldy council's scouting program.

[Hunt]

Bob, you left out "pants on fire."

 

Even if a court ultimately decides that Old Baldy shouldn't have gotten the block grant (three years ago, by the way, so Bob isn't a liar if it's no longer happening)--my gosh, $15,000 is a tiny pittance compared to the BSA budget, or the budget of any Council. Is that all you've got? If you can't show me government funding of more than a fraction of a percent, you're wasting everybody's time with negligible amounts. I notice that Merlyn didn't answer my question of whether he posts here to persuade or annoy.

[Fat Old Guy]

Heck, $15,000 isn't even money to the government, numbers need to end in "illions" for Uncle Sugar to notice.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I see, discrimination doesn't matter if it's a small amount of money, eh? So it would be OK for, say, a state government to financially support a youth group that excluded Jews?

[NJCubScouter]

Bob says:

 

They are not a part of the BSA, why are you determenined to make them match each others rules rules? They have different missions and so who they allow as members differs as well. An 11-year-old boy cannot join APO. But how can that be? By your logic since they are based on the same values they should accept the same membership.

 

First of all, Bob, instead of making up things that you say I said and responding to them, you could try responding to what I actually said. If you're just going to invent things and answer them, you might as well just be talking to yourself.

 

Second of all, not all elements of a "mission" involve "values." The BSA accepting an 11-year-old and not a 20-year-old college student as youth members, and the opposite for APO, have nothing to do with "values." They may be parts of each group's mission, but of course in the BSA's case, that detail has changed several times, as the ages of eligibility for joining have been adjusted, and new programs added with different age requirements.

 

I that suppose some might see this as a "cheap shot," but I am not surprised that you can't distinguish between what is a "value" of the BSA and what isn't. The current leadership of the BSA shares your confusion, and that is why the current controversy exists.

[Eamonn]

I was looking at page 10 of the pfd under Scope of Services.

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy]

If I had the time and reseources that liberals have, I'd do some research but since I'm a conservative and I'm responsible for saving the free world, I won't. That said, why is it that no one complains when the government funds programs for "at risk" black youths?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Since you won't bother to actually FIND a government-funded program that only services at-risk black youth (and to be analogous to the BSA situation, NON-black youth who would otherwise be eligible would be refused these services), I'll just assume it's a figment of your imagination until shown an example.

[Eamonn]

If we look at the Scope of Services and see that Membership of the BSA isn't a requirement. It would seem to me that someone is missing the point.

Eamonn

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

If you'll look at the services paid for by the grant, you'll see that they consist of:

 

1) going to schools

2) giving talks to urge boys to join Scouting

3) having boys join Scouting

 

It wouldn't make much sense if you had to be a member of Boy Scouts in order to qualify for (2) and (3) above. However, (3) is one of the services paid for by the HUD grant, which requires that it be available to the boys regardless of creed; but if you don't hold the creed that god exists, you can't join.

[Eamonn]

I don't agree.

I have a friend who goes into High Schools as part of the Learning for Life program he gives talks on being a diesel mechanic.

While he might influence some of the youth to want to become Diesel mechanics one doesn't necessarily follow the other.

Then of course there is the question of the applications, For a youth to join a troop or a pack his parents would have to choose to fill out the application. HUD didn't have any anything to do with that. So why sue HUD?

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy]

"Since you won't bother to actually FIND a government-funded program "

 

Unlike you, I have better things to do with my time. I have a wife (a real wife, not a man in a dress like yours) and a couple kids that take up my time. If I didn't have anything better to do, I'd spend my days in the library looking through the paper for the news stories that I've read in the past.