Most Hated Nation

[Zahnada]

This whole argument about whether or not the United States is hated by other countries has turned into a set of false dichotomies. When a country is as large and active as the United States, there will be many contradictory policies and actions. We need to take the bad with the good when considering our past and present. Then we can understand why the world loves and hates us. Revisionist history (such as claiming the US never tried to invade Canada or that we were completely innocent of aggression in that war) accomplishes nothing. Here are some contradictions that are true.

 

America is selfish and generous:

 

We're capitalist (and proud of it) so we always try to get the most while paying the least. It's basic economics to pay the workers in factories the lowest possible wage. It's also impossible to deny that there is an oil interest in creating stability in the Middle East. We like for our policies (foreign and domestic) to benefit us.

 

However, we're also the most generous nation in the world. We give more aid to world causes than anyone else. It's impossible to deny that there is a humanitarian interest in creating stability in the Middle East. We give tons of money and labor to aid countries in ways that will never benefit us directly. If there is a huge natural disaster in the world, you can bet the US will be offering help. Just look at the billions spent by the Marshal Plan to clean up after WWII. We have money, and we spend it for others.

 

 

America is wasteful and ecologically mindful:

 

We use more energy than anyone else. We pollute the environment to a great degree as well. However, we spend money developing ways to be more efficient and we spend money to help clean the environment. We waste, but we also create. The streets are paved with gold here. We flush our toilets with fresh, drinking water while several countries in the world have limited water supplies.

 

 

America is protector of freedom and bully:

 

When a government oppresses people, America will not be afraid to fight them. The ideals of freedom are not just rhetoric. However, we often do what we feel is right without waiting for approval from the global community. This unilateral course of action gets things done, but it imposes our will on the rest of the world. The result is that people will view us as arrogant.

 

 

There are many more existing contradictions. The point is that the world is in a love/hate relationship with America. They need us, but they don't like to admit it. We cause problems and we solve problems. There's bad and there's good to being the most powerful country in the world.

[RobK]

under-paid childworkers of international sweatshops...

 

Under paid in comparison to what? Park Avenue CEOs? Or the people within ten miles of themselves? If you compare their wage against mine, sure I couldn't live on what they make, but they don't live where I do! I couldn't live on what I make if I lived in New York City or San Francisco! But I live pretty well here in central Indiana. I have relatives in southern Kentucky who live better than me on less. Those 'sweat-shops' pay up to FIVE TIMES the prevailing local wage! What else are those 'under-paid childworkers' going to do with their time? Let me give you a clue - it ain't scouting or school work. They're going to sit and starve because they have nothing else!

 

Those who complain about under paid child workers in foreign sweat shops can have no understanding what so ever of basic economics. If there were better jobs to be had, those workers would take them. Those 'sweat shop' jobs allow those people to actually earn a living in their country, and those jobs won't stay the same forever. Look at the history of manufacturing in first world countries. As the money flows in to the area of the 'sweat shop', conditions for everyone there will improve. Life will get easier for everyone.

[Achilleez]

RobK,

 

I agree with you for the most part. My point in bringing the whole thing up was that the world sees the sweatshops and the pollution and they place the blame on the big rich Western countries, and alot of that blame comes from within those countries.

 

FOG,

 

I never said anything about the US government being involved in those sweatshops. The point is that the American companies that own those places are often chastised by liberal fools.

Secondly, if you were to read my original post with more care you would see that I never criticized the USA for getting involved where they are needed.

 

"Combine with that their tendency to intervene in foreign countries where they are not wanted, regardless of however badly they might be needed."

 

As you can see, you have so horribly twisted and mangled my words that its hard to have civil conversation. Oh, and please go back to history class to learn how the War of 1812 REALLY started.(This message has been edited by Achilleez)

[Fat Old Guy]

"Oh, and please go back to history class to learn how the War of 1812 REALLY started."

 

Oh, I should learn the revisionist history taught by a socialist nation?

[dsteele]

Just did a little research on The War of 1812. I re-learned a lot I had forgotten. This thread, while I disagree with the original premise, has been educational.

 

So what was I thinking of? I was thinking "Remember the Maine!" What's that from? I seem to recall the Spaniards sinking a ship and thought that was the War of 1812.

 

As to America being the most-hated nation. My question is, by whom? The entire world? I doubt it. In fact, I think it's egocentric of us to believe that we're the most hated. Hated, perhaps. By some. By many, quite possibly.

 

I don't think there's any one nation that is "most hated." There are lots of arguments between nations, etc. But is one larger than all? I doubt it.

 

Unc.

[LovetoCamp]

"Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise if we didn't fire our muskets 'til we looked them in the eye.

 

We held our fire 'til we see'd their faces well, then we opened up our squirrel guns & really gave 'em WELL...."

 

[dsteele]

Answered my own question. It seems I was off by 77 years. I was thinking of the Spanish American War. I should have remembered the old 1970's tv commercial cry "You sank my battleship!"

 

Unc.

[Proud Eagle]

Not to further muddle the issue, but investigations have shown that the Maine probably exploded due to an on board accident, involving a fire in a coal bunker if I remember correctly. While it isn't really possible to prove this beyond any doubt, it now appears to be the most likely cause of the explosion.

 

As to the War of 1812, that was a bit of a mess to say the least. The US claim was that the British were responsible because of various policies including the impression of US sailors (the British even refused to acknowledge that most of them were in fact US citizens), and the occasional theft of ships and cargo. I seem to recall the British were again fighting the French and the US got stuck in the middle to a certain extent. At the time some actually supported war with France since they were doing things much the same as the British. In the end the US decided to invade Canada since that would serve a dual purpose. The invasion of Canada turned into a disaster (due to a combination of poor leadership, some bad luck, inaccurate intelligence, and the use of a mostly defensive force in an offensive role), but in an odd twist, the US Navy actually managed some significant victories against the British Royal Navy. In the end both countries realized the war was of no benefit to either, and so a treaty was hammered out. Then Jackson managed to beat the British attempting to take New Orleans and made it look like the US had won the war.

 

Of coarse the Canadians had reason to worry in the late 1860s. The US could have easily raised the most powerful army in the world, drawing on both northern and southern strengths. Though the British would likely have had an advantage on the high seas, since most of the US warships built during the Civil War were designed for blockade duties near the coast or for work in inland water ways. In any case, the victorious northerners were too busy "reconstructing" the south to go "reconstruct" Canada.

[Marty_Doyle]

Of course, Irish nationalists serving in both the Conferderate and Union armies realized Proud Eagle's last point and formed a Feinian army, made up of Civil War veterans. This army "invaded" Canada from US soil a number of times in 1866-1870, but was defeated each time.

 

And didn't some US presidential candidate run under the slogan "54.40 or Fight", which would have meant "annexing" a huge slice of Canada?

 

So the US, or it's citizens, have actually invaded Canada a number of times, and our politicians have occasionally called for the annexation of pieces of Canada.

 

Oh yeah, and there was some brouhaha over the US Army War College developing plans regarding an invasion of Canada in the 1920's.

 

Ain't history interestin'?

[Zahnada]

TrailPounder,

 

Personally, I prefer "Sink the Bismarck". I don't know if I spelled it right, but it's a good song. Of course, "Battle of New Orleans" is also a good song.

 

-Z

[Achilleez]

FOG,

 

"Oh, I should learn the revisionist history taught by a socialist nation?"

 

First, I don't know where you come off calling Canada socialist all the time, but I assure you it is as innacurate as me calling you a facist.

 

Secondly, you seem to be the only person here who is a revisionist, because you remember history different than the textbooks say, but I suppose that's to be expected from someone taught in a 'facist' nation.

 

**************

 

Oh, come back, proud Canadians

To before you had TV,

No hockey night in Canada,

There was no CBC (Oh, my God!).

In 1812, Madison was mad,

He was the president, you know

He thought hed tell the British where they ought to go

He thought hed invade Canada,

He thought that he was tough

Instead we went to Washington....

And burned down all his stuff!

 

****************

[RobK]

"54.40 or Fight" coined in 1848 by US president James Polk for a Manifest Destiny movement that believed the Canada-US border should be moved north to the 54th parallel, 40th minute (ie, the present-day border of Canada and Alaska).

 

More:

[Fat Old Guy]

"First, I don't know where you come off calling Canada socialist all the time, but I assure you it is as innacurate as me calling you a facist."

 

Let's see . . . socialized medicine, that's a good start, isn't it? Then you do have the trappings of fascism as well such as censorship of print and speech.

 

As for textbooks, har! According to some books, Geo. Washington had little to do with the Revolution and the calculus was invented by African Bushmen. Your textbooks probably say that Canada and its massive navy played a major role in the defeat of Japan.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Achilleez]

Our health care system is becoming less and less socialized all the time. Infact, if Steven Harper wins the upcoming election, there is a very good chance he will privatize it all-together, allowing American corporations to run them according to standards set by the Canadian government. Alberta is even beginning to experiment with privatized charter schools. On the other side of the coin, the New Democratic Party is gaining support from elsewhere in the country, so who's to say how we rank on the political spectrum anymore?

 

If you hate our socialist ways so much, why have we been your largest international trade partner for 130 years? Your economy doesn't seem to hate us so much.

[Fat Old Guy]

"If you ha